14) DECEMBER 20, 1968: SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE
OF THE RETARDATION OF A CHILD: CARNAL MIND
by Henry Clifford Kinley
December 20, 1968
Los Angeles, California
CATALOG # 68.1220 (Chicago Branch #7)
recorder unknown, received from Lee Warren
1 90 minute audio cassette
transcribed by Geraldine Rothstein
proofread by Mary Gross
approved by the International Public Relations Committee - March 1995
1. ... indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.
2. Student Body comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.
3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, uh, see, you see, you see what I mean, isn't that right, understand, you understand, do you understand.)
4. ___ indicates an inaudible word or syllable
5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber
Dr. Kinley: Now you have an opportunity to listen at our ministers that are being tutored for work on the field, they are novices or beginners in the ministry. Now you have to have some patience with them because they have to be trained too, but I do want to say that each one of `em knew what he was talking about, understood what he was taking about. Now this thought that Dr. Robinson brought up here about retarded children. Now a lot of people won't like to accept, most particularly grown ups, they wouldn't like to accept that they're retarded children to Yahweh because they are all confused in all kinds of sects and cults and visions and superstitions and traditions and ideologies and opinions and so forth and so on. Now I just wanna tell you they're retarded, been hard to be looked upon as such but.., sometimes they're classified as brilliant academically trained scientific ____ minded, then as many different vocations but let me tell you this, let me tell you this real easy: if you don't see the necessity of serving Yahweh according to His will and purpose, now I'd don't care how bright and how brilliant you think you are, you're retarded. You may not think so. And I'd like to tell you how far back you're retarded. Now if you notice in the first chapter of Saint John, that, and we have said in our lectures, now you listen at me and don't think you don't have to pay some attention and you're up on it because you just might be a retarded person and just don't realize it. Yahweh there enlightened every man that was born into the world; that is to say, as we have often said, gives him a sufficient amount of intelligence to comprehend the difference between right and wrong. Now that's a normal child. Now here may be one born that is what you call subnormal or abnormal, doesn't have all of his mental faculties that is they don't work just right, they're deformed or something like that. Now I wanna tell you about that person, that child, that child is not responsible, so he's still has the advantage of you in the event that he passed out or something like that, you don't have to worry about that. You just don't have to worry about that, that is whether he's saved or lost and rushing around with the last rites of the church and all that foolishness, you don't have to, you don't have to worry with that. Would you read there in John, Dr. Harris, find the place, I'd don't know what the verse is.
Dr. Harris: the true light is that that lighteth every man that cometh into the world
Dr. Kinley: Now the true light is that light which lighteneth every man that cometh into the world. Now you just don't have no excuse, when it's really done with, you don't have no excuse. But now you can see yourself, almost all of the people are grown, you can see how we've drifted off into this religion and that religion and the other religion all out of one Bible. We've got many different churches and many different ___ and what not. Right?
Student Body: Right.
Dr. Kinley: Well now, why is it that you can't discern the difference between right and wrong. Why is it? Why would you stand up and say, `well look, I'm a Catholic, I'm born a Roman Catholic and I believe in Roman Catholicism.' Can't nobody tell you nothing no different than that. And then here's another fellow over here, he says, `well I was not a Roman Catholic, I'm a protestant.' And to him, what he believes and what he has been taught is just as right to him what it is to the other fellow. Now you take those 2 and you go on down the line and you will find them that way, all along the line. And some just simply refuse to change even though you present a thing right square to his face just like it really is, but he's been raised under that dogma, he's been raised in that religious concept and he refuses to look at anything else. Now there's 2 or 3 things here that we're gonna present to you just for your own.., put it in to.., so you can look at it and judge it for yourself.
Now number one we told you this, we already done told you this: anybody that don't see fit as of now to seek for and find and know Yahweh as He really is and as He actually exists and serve Him according to His purpose and plan, now that's a feeble minded person. Now you may have a college degree, now we told you that, you may be as smart and very brilliant but you're not, not, not a bit. Now the reason why I said that is because if you come in contact with as much tradition and superstition and erroneous doctrines as I have because we teach down here to investigate everything. Look into the negative, look into the positive, side one up by the other. Now when you try to do that and try to bring out the reality of these things (now listen at me) like it really is then somebody out there is offended and insulted and often times the people overlook this completely: that there is a good and a bad, a negative and a positive, they just simply overlook it. Now, read that Dr. Harris where you were there in the Book, or somebody. I want you.., read it, read it out loud Dr. Gross or whoever's got it.
Reader: the true light is that which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Dr. Kinley: Now the true light is that light which lighteneth every man that cometh into the world. Now listen, if Yahweh didn't give you that to begin with then He would not be justified in destroying you because you didn't know. Now I want you to look at 1st Thessalonians 5:14.
Reader: Now we exhort you brethren
Dr. Kinley: Now we exhort you brethren
Reader: warn them that are unruly
Dr. Kinley: warn them that are unruly
Reader: comfort the feeble minded
Dr. Kinley: Uh, uh, uh. Wait a minute, wait just a minute. There are a whole lot of `em that need a lot of comforting, don't they? Warn them that are unruly or disobedient and some don't have, as I've already explained, the ability to discern one thing from the other, he's unruly. Well now you're just gonna have to.., you know kinda pacify them along cause his, his case is already taken care of. You see what I mean? Sometimes that's in the form of self conceit, a fellow thinks he knows a whole lot of something he don't know, he's dogmatic about it, he's stubborn, he's unruly, uncontrolled. `Uncontrolled? What do you mean?' He won't.., now let me show you something. Now we have stood here in this pulpit almost every meeting that we have and it's just one of our songs, been put to music to that tune too, telling you to come on out here to class, come and bring your friends. Now do you do that? If we had all of the people this night in this classroom that have been affiliated with this school, now I, I don't want you to think they found something wrong with it, don't get it like that, but they're off out there and if you contact `em they'd say, `yeah, I know I ought to be there but ah...,' You understand? They just can't really find no good excuse. They'll tell you in a minute, there ain't nothing wrong with the doctrine. Ain't that right?
Student Body: Yes.
Dr. Kinley: But if we had `em all here tonight or in other words if they'd all obey, this place wouldn't hold `em. Now then, there's some that can't stay here. Well, I wonder why? It's because the truth is taught and it just show you up. Now what kinda thoughts are them. I'll tell you what kind they are. Carnal minded. Now to be carnal minded is enmity against God. Now it really don't make no difference what church you come from, those of you that are here. It don't make no difference what one you come from, any of `em and it's carnal minded. I'm saying the Roman Catholics is carnal minded and the protestants is carnal minded and the man that belongs to Buddhist or Shintoism or something like that, he's still carnal minded. Now somebody come here insisting on water baptism and eating Lord's suppers is carnal minded, that's enmity against God. Somebody come here declaring that Messiah was in.., instituting this ordinance and that ordinance, he's carnal minded, Bishop. That's right.
Somebody say, `hold, hold, hold, hold everything, what are you talking about my pastor.' You remember the parable of Yahshua the Messiah, He said the kingdom of heaven is liken unto a net which when it was cast into the sea, brought forth of every kind. Dr. Harris and Dr. Jackson and Dr. Griggs and them know about that. And in that you got scavengers, you're liable to have a water moccasin in it, you're liable to have a turtle in it, you're liable to have cat fish, you're liable to have a bass, you're liable to have a salmon, it just.., then you're gonna have some sticks and stones and water dogs and everything else. You see what I'm talking about? Now when that net was drew to the shore, the fishermen, like Peter, they took the good out and put `em in vessels. They were edible, they took the good out and the rest of `em they throwed `em back. They throwed `em back. Now the man that's under this dispensation, and not under the old dispensation, is in this spiritual kingdom and not back here in the carnal ordinances, this was under the law and the prophets prophesied, so now in casting this net out into the sea or casting it out into the world, in a big house you've got all kinds of people in it, you're got what we call the International Council of Churches, then we've got the other different kinds of churches. And you've got `em all drawed up in front and every one that you find that is practicing the things that's done back under the law, throw `em back, because this was back under the law so you just throw `em on back.
Somebody says, `well you know my pastor, if there ever was a good man, so kind hearted.' Get it now? Now this is how this negativity slips in on you and this is how this ignorance and superstition slips in on you. And you, not having a sound mind, listen, and a sound doctrine, they're pulling the wool over your eyes. You see what I mean? Now you'll just have to throw `em back and don't receive the admiration of personality, that's just not gonna help us in here. Somebody says, `oh, hold everything, you don't, you don't understand that, that's Bishop Short.' Somebody says, `well, yeah that's alright, well that's Dr. LaSalle Williams, he's at this church and Bishop Short's at another one,' but if Dr. LaSalle Williams and Bishop Short is participating and practicing carnal ordinances, you throw `em back. Ain't that the way it works, Dr. Bishop.
Bishop Short: Yes, sir.
Dr. Kinley: He understands what I'm talking about, he knows I'm not casting any reflection on him at all, I don't intend to do that. But now, just in the event that you were doing something like that, and somebody showed you the difference, then what you should do is come on out of Babylon or on out of that confusion, come on out of that ignorance, come on out of that superstition, come on out of that old, worn out religious concept that you've got. Do you see what I mean? Now that's what, that's why we have the school down here, that's why we have it. And we've been here now for 37 years.
Now look, also any the retarded person, any nut, you just really don't need to have real good sense, and it's for, and it's for sure you don't need a college education. You don't need no college education to understand the simplicity of this work. Just like Dr. Robinson drew these lines here in the middle, didn't he draw them lines on the charts here, and also you can and everything.
Now look up here at me folks, now here's what we have done. We have taken the pattern that Yahweh Himself gave, we've taken that and we have put it beside (listen now, listen closely) we have put it beside of what you call the godhead itself. Now when I say godhead I'm talking about the father, I'm talking about the word or the incorporeal son, and then I'm talking about the physical son. Now these 2, this one here and this one here manifest what's in this. This one you see in visions and this one you can look at with your physical eyes where you're setting right there. Now look, we just don't have no excuse ___ this. Now when we start out in the Bible, suppose you take the first chapter of Genesis. I want you to see through what I'm talking about, I want you to understand what I'm talking about. I want you to understand how the ___ runs in the Bible. Now would you be so kind as to read the first verse of the first chapter of Genesis.
Reader: In the beginning
Dr. Kinley: In the beginning
Reader: Elohim created the heavens and the
Dr. Kinley: Elohim created, or God created you have in your King James Version of the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth. You're reading now.
Reader: And the earth became without form and void
Dr. Kinley: And the earth was, was void and without, without form
Reader: and darkness was upon the
Dr. Kinley: Now just a minute. Hold that right there. Hold that right there. The earth was without form. Now that means this: it was inorganic, it was not organized. It is what you described that coring mass of inorganic matter, it was without form, without any particular descriptive shape. Matter is a substance, it's a substance that has its derivative from spirit. Now what Moses is telling you here is this: if matter itself was produced that way, inorganic, without any descriptive shape or form. Now then (are you listening) then spirit would have to be that way and that's why matter was produced in that way to show you how spirit was in the first place. Now we're way out on the limb there and this won't do for no feeble minded folks. Now Moses have to see that in that inorganic state, not organized and so called inanimate and inorganic, no particular descriptive shape or form. Now Moses is seeing that in his vision. Now it shows here the spirit, first existed this way, without any.., just forget all about shape and form in there, cause there's no shape and no form in it so far as you're able to discern it, any more so than he was able to discern in this parent coring mass of matter. Now I took special pains, use those words. Now I'll show you what I mean. Now I said this was a coring mass, a gigantic coring mass of matter. Listen, I said it was the parent mass. Now then that means this, that it.., you always look at the natural first and then you go to the spiritual. Now read that in the Book for me, first chapter of Romans the 18th and 19th verse.
Reader: Because that which may be known of Yahweh
Dr. Kinley: Now that which may be known or in other words, it's possible for you to know, it's not a matter of impossibility. Alright.
Reader: because that which may be known of Yahweh
Dr. Kinley: Now here's why, because that which may be known
Reader: of Yahweh
Dr. Kinley: of Yahweh
Reader: is manifest in them
Dr. Kinley: Now, it's revealed or it's manifested to `em. To who? To these back here at the mountain ___ instituting ___. That's the reason why we tell you come back here. Now if you're not gonna come back here, then you're not gonna be able to make it over there. Now if you can't start out right, you can't end up right. Do you understand what I'm talking about? I'm showing you that spirit was first, it's first God or Yahweh, it's spirit. You can not discern or see spirit with your physical eye consequently you can not have any description of it. Now somebody's looking for God, totally unconscious that everything that exists, it takes everything that, that is in existence to make up Yahweh, vegetable and otherwise, animal you and everything else, it takes all of that to make up Him. All of it come from that. Now listen, let's show you another thought now. You're gonna hold that one? Now this form, this shape and form, Yahweh just took on this shape and form, it come from this indescribable shape and the only way that Moses could tell, or any of them could tell anything about it, it was a cloud, it appeared as a cloud to them. And He took on this shape and form in this cloud and back there and Moses is seeing this shape and form. They're seeing this shape and form in this cloud. Now it didn't take all of this to make up this one little body and yet that's a superincorporeal body, but it come from this. Now somebody will step right up and say, `well you know, I don't believe that, I don't think he knows what he's talking about.' Alright, now listen, if you take the masculine and feminine spermazoa and inject it into the womb, there it takes on shape and form in the womb. That's what you have here, same identical thing. Now when it's presented Dr. Harris and you won't accept it, you don't have nothing no better to offer, and Yahweh's showing it to you, then you're feeble minded, you're retarded. That's what your trouble is. Now, you've got in the beginning (listen now), it was not in the beginning of the creation that Moses talked about, he's talking about in the beginning of his vision, and in the beginning of his vision he said Elohim created the heavens and the earth. Right?
Student Body: Right
Dr. Kinley: Now here's what we tried to tell you in this school. You'll do well to try to learn it. Now then, you take Elohim, the head cavity, chest cavity, abdominal cavity. Somebody said, `well what about the legs, no, you didn't say nothing about that.' Now on the ark of the covenant, on the ark of the covenant, on this, this and this and these vessels, they had, they carried it on staves, and men carried it there on staves, just like, staves running through the midst, and on up the priests' shoulder from the front and from behind, carrying that on, on the staves. Do you understand how, how I mean? You know how Pope Paul and them ride around on them sedia gestoria about on men's shoulders as they did the ark of the covenant. Now listen close, as they, as they walked along there, now here's your arms and here is your legs and it's just like you have your legs to bow this part of your body, and if it was animal, then you'd be walking on all fours and that'd be just like the staves in the ark that's born on it. So then this here and all of this down here is born up by legs and you have the use of your arms. Get it now? You, now you can see through that. Now, as we go on through here, now you're in the first chapter of Genesis. I'm, I'm going to cut this down in, in, in a minute or two. Now, in the first chapter of Genesis read, read, read, read, read along a little further there Dr. Harris. Now I want you to see how simple, I want you to see how plain, I want you to see how easy it is to understand. Read.
Reader: And the earth became without form and void
Dr. Kinley: And, and the earth became without form
Reader: And darkness was upon the face of the deep
Dr. Kinley: And the darkness was upon the face of the deep
Reader: and the spirit of Elohim moved upon the face of the waters
Dr. Kinley: and the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters
Reader: and Elohim said
Dr. Kinley: and God said
Reader: let there be light
Dr. Kinley: let there be light
Reader: and there was light
Dr. Kinley: and there was light. Read
Reader: And Elohim saw the light that it was good
Dr. Kinley: And Elohim saw the light that it was good
Reader: and Elohim divided the light
Dr. Kinley: Now I want you to get this word divided, He divided the what?
Reader: the light from the darkness
Dr. Kinley: Divided the light from the darkness. Now if I say to you, well why? Unless you took this pattern, you wouldn't know nothing whatsoever about it, it's impossible to answer. Now then He divided because now the Most Holy Place was divided from the Holy Place, the Holy Place is divided from the Outer Court. Now this is Him and He's creating by Himself. Now then everything in the creation, every particle of matter, listen closely now, whether it's a, it's a proton, a neutron, and electron. Now then, God divided the light from the darkness and the waters above and the waters beneath and as you read on down and look and look at, look at that long winded sentence. You read clear from the first chapter of Genesis and on down into the 4th verse of the 2nd chapter and you got this conjunction and God and, and and, and and, and and. Right? Now look and listen, cause I'm fixing to do something, Bishop. Then you just take Revelation and bring it right back together with, with Genesis and all and you will find that John said after this I saw, and after that I saw, and after that I saw, and then after this he saw, he didn't say the next day, he didn't say the week after that, or the next day after that, he didn't, he, he didn't use that kinda talk. Why? Because he's in the, Moses is in the realm of eternity and so also is John. And he's telling you what he saw after this, that, and the other. Now Dr. Farley said while he was up here, he said there was just one day and one night. Right. That's all.
Now in the beginning God called light day and the darkness He called night. Now He divided the light from the darkness. Now if you were out here and the sun was rising and it was coming out of, of, of night, it would look like it would be blended, the dawn. You couldn't divide in between that to save your life. Now, less you begin flexible, said the word of God, the apostle said is quick and powerful. How quick and how powerful? And it's sharp, sharper than a 2 edged sword, piercing even to the dividing of asunder, and the reason why it said the dividing of asunder, see how there's divisions in here, looking right at that, of the soul and spirit, and is the discerner of the thoughts and the intents of the mind. Now when you're carnal minded, when you're carnal minded, we know all about what you're thinking and why you're thinking. That's how we can read your mind for you with a ___ ___ and you have some and you don't understand the, the spiritual things, your ___ told me so. Another thing you don't understand, you don't understand the difference between.., let's use this line down here, you don't understand the difference between one of the dispensation and the other. And you are all confused. Now if you went on down, you'll read it when you go home, because we're gonna go now. You, you, you'll find that each one of these days God divided the waters above from the waters beneath because He created `em by Himself and He's 3 fold, just like this pattern is. Ain't that simple? Just as He ___ no trouble and look what you got here, the whole scheme, I'm talking about this whole Bible, all of it is just put together just like that one.
Dr. Kinley: All history and everything is put together just like that. This migration, it's divided up in 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3, just like the tabernacle, we showed it to you. You can't miss, just can't miss. Now you tell me somewhere you can go, anywhere, that you can learn like you can down here. You know any place, Bishop.
Bishop Short: No, sir.
Dr. Kinley: You know any place, Roger.
Man: No, I don't.
Dr. Kinley: What about you Freddie?
Fred Allen Jr.: Not a place
Dr. Kinley: This side over here. Now don't you see where you.., don't you see where you ought to be in and learn something about the truth. Now listen, let me tell you this. Now just like you get in the scheme of times, time from one ___ to the other, time from this point to the other. Now look, there is no time in the realm of eternity. This is just a, this is a day... Read the 4th verse of the 2nd chapter. Now you listen at it.
Reader: These are the origins of the heavens and of the earth
Dr. Kinley: These are the origins of the heaven
Reader: and of the earth
Dr. Kinley: and, and of the earth
Reader: when they were created
Dr. Kinley: Now when they were created
Reader: in the day
Dr. Kinley: Now wait a minute. Up there in the first chapter of Genesis you got 6 days there. Now you got down here in the 2nd chapter and Moses is telling you in the day or in eternity when they were created. John out on the Isle of Patmos, he's looking back there and he said, `I didn't see no night there.' You get it? And here's something else he said, `I didn't see no temple therein.' The question is why? Cause the Lord God and the Lamb, they are the temple of it. You don't need no light of the sun. Why? Because you have the son for the light. Now, ain't that stupid to say something like that. Now here, it means this: here this sun here is symbolical of this one here, so you don't need no light of this one because you got this one. And this one, it's so, it's so bright until it just abolishes that one, so you don't need the light of the sun, cause you got the light of the son. It's wonderful, truthfully wonderful. Now people look at this here, creation here and they don't wanna leave here. They're always expecting you to get ahead and have the things to make `em comfortable in this life and convenience. And he wasted all this time, he doesn't think about the other side of it. And somebody's stupid enough, said, `well look, I really enjoy all of mine while I'm here.' And somebody said, `well, give me these and you take the rest of it.' The other fellow that, that, that, that took the other side of it, he died, you remember he lifted up his eyes in hell and saw Abraham, Lazarus afar off in the other man's bosom and the, the scriptures say that he had all the good things and Lazarus had all the bad. And he certainly changed his mind there that time, he wanted Lazarus, the beggar, to come and dip his finger and ___. Now what those caverns are, the difference, because Lazarus couldn't come to him and he couldn't go to Lazarus is because there's a gulf between `em. `What do you mean a gulf between?' I mean, is a difference between them dispensations. You can't come from, you, you can't come from ___. Now he wants, he wants his finger dipped in water, that he might cool his parching tongue, he's back here. Where over here there's, there's ___ ___ by water over here. You got living water over here and you got physical water over here. And that's, this, this is the gulf between `em, this is a cavern between `em. And now you can't.., the thing of it is, let me say this in conclusion. I've already done said it, I'm doing nothing but repeating: to be carnal minded that's death and it's emnity against God. Every time somebody tries to tell you something you get up your old carnal mind in there. And then this is what you say, `didn't Jesus say for us to do this.' You done jammed your carnal mind in there and lied on Him, He didn't say it. He told them in the other dispensation to do that. He fulfilled it and moved all that natural out that was given to a natural people over there. And now we're in the spirit of the thing. Let's go home.
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