19) FEBRUARY 21, 1971: LOVE AND LUST
Printed by Los Angeles Public Relations from an audio cassette with the approval of the International Public Relations Committee.
Dr. Kinley: Thank you ever so much. Now Dr. Mathess, now, he preached. That’s all that is to that. Now I said Dr. Mathess preached. No, but we look upon them as men — ministers — and call them by name; but that [that Dr. Mathess taught] was really irrefutable!
Now I’ll tell you why I got up here. Last night we had a ministers meeting. And in that ministers meeting we said some things. Last Thursday we were up at San Luis Obispo (Dr. Harris and quite a few others), and I discussed, I talked about some things up there which they made a recording of, and then we brought them up in this ministers meeting last night. And I said that I told you some things that, huh, there could be some disagreement on. For example: the word LOVE. I said that people took LUST for LOVE; now that could be misinterpreted and misunderstood. It all depends on primarily on what you think of LOVE, too. You follow what I’m saying? Now we use words to convey thoughts. And then I went on to say something else that, (huh — I called myself explaining that) that could be misunderstood and misinterpreted, too, and that is this: I said, “Now we’re always eating.’ So now I didn’t say it, you see, so don’t start blaming it on me! Yes I did; I said it. Now that sounds like double talking. Don’t it? You follow? Now I’m trying to impart to you an understanding.
Now we’re always telling you to the Law and to the Testimony. Now when you go back to the Law and the Testimony, there are some things that are not drawn out to it’s fullest detail, and [it’s] so also in the Prophecy too. You follow? But there is enough there for you to comprehend. Now can I make one real quick gesture right here? Now Moses, he did not write the Law. Now suppose I turn over to the 5th Chapter of John and say that Messiah said he did! You see? Do you follow what I’m talking about? Then when you go back over in Exodus, which we did last night — suppose you just open your book to Exodus anywhere and start to read. I’ll show you what I’m talking about as I tried to do last night. All right read.
Dr. Harris: Then Yahweh said unto Moses
Dr. Kinley: Huh?
Dr. Harris: Then Yahweh said unto Moses
Dr. Kinley: You don’t need to go no further. Now, somebody else said that. Now if it had been Moses, Moses would have said, “And Yahweh said unto me.” Try to read somewhere else there.
Dr. Harris: Seventh chapter of Exodus. And Yahweh said unto Moses
Dr. Kinley: Do you see that now? “…And Yahweh said unto Moses.” Now, go over in the 5th Chapter of John and the 45th verse, I believe it is.
Dr. Harris: Do you think that I will accuse you to the Father
Dr. Kinley: Do you think that I will accuse you to the Father
Dr. Harris: There is one that accuseth you
Dr. Kinley: There is one that accuseth you
Dr. Harris: Even Moses in whom you trust
Dr. Kinley: Even Moses in whom you trust
Dr. Harris: For had you believed Moses
Dr. Kinley: For if you believed or had you believed — I straighten my English out there too see. “…Had you believed Moses…”
Dr. Harris: You would have believed me
Dr. Kinley: You would have believed me
Dr. Harris: For he wrote of me
Dr. Kinley: For Moses or he wrote of me. Now you got it that he didn’t, and now you got it that he did. You follow? Do you follow? Now I want to show you some more disputation — how you can get all messed up — coming back again. “To the Law and to the Testimony…” that’s in your Bible is that right? Now Paul said — look at Romans 3:31.
Mary Gross: Do we then make void the Law
Dr. Kinley: Do we then make void the Law
Mary Gross: Through faith?
Dr. Kinley: Through faith?
Mary Gross: By no means
Dr. Kinley: By no means
Mary Gross: Yea, we establish the Law.
Dr. Kinley: Now we establish the Law. Now you go right over on the other side of it, and you say He fulfilled it and removed it. For it said, “…for Christ is the end of the Law.” Now you got it that He established it. Now look at Romans 7:14.
Mary Gross: For we know that the Law is Spiritual
Dr. Kinley: Now wait just a minute. Just a minute! For we know that the Law is Spiritual. Read on.
Mary Gross: But I am carnal
Dr. Kinley: But I am carnal
Mary Gross: Sold under sin
Dr. Kinley: “…sold under sin.” Now, you got the Law is Spiritual. Do you — I am trying to show you something. Now you got it that He fulfilled it and moved it out of the way, and now you got it that He established it. Do you follow? That’s Romans 3:31 and 7:14. Ephesians 2:14 and 15.
Mary Gross: For He is our Peace
Dr. Kinley: For He is our Peace
Mary Gross: Who has made both one
Dr. Kinley: Now wait just a minute. Don’t you know we’re negotiating for peace all over the world — signing peace treaties. See. Now, he is our peace. Now if you would read over there in
Matthew when He was born — you see what I am talking about — and then you’ve got peace on earth and good will unto all men. Now you got that He is our peace! You follow? Now then, you talking about peace there; now go right over there in Matthew again. He said, “I didn’t come to bring peace, but I bring a sword!! Now you’re all messed up again!! Read on.
Mary Gross: For He is our peace who hath made both one and has broken down the middle wall
Dr. Kinley: And has broken down the middle wall
Mary Gross: Of partition between us.
Dr. Kinley: That’s between the Jews and the Gentiles. Read on.
Mary Gross: Having abolished in His flesh
Dr. Kinley: Having abolished in His flesh
Mary Gross: The enmity
Dr. Kinley: The enmity
Mary Gross: Even the Law of Commandments.
Dr. Kinley: Now just a minute. Now you turn over and say: “Blessed are they that do His Commandments that they might have a right to the Tree of Life. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it
Holy…” and so forth and so on. You follow? Then somebody’ll say, “Naw, not the Commandments that was given from Mount Sinai; He didn’t abolish them.‘ You see? But now read on. Repeat what you just said.
Mary Gross: Having abolished in His flesh
Dr. Kinley: Having abolished in His flesh
Mary Gross: Even the Law of Commandments
Dr. Kinley: Even the Law of Commandments
Mary Gross: Contained in ordinances
Dr. Kinley: Now you watch out there. You’ll get in trouble. Right there is where you got in trouble. Right there is where you got all messed up! See? The Law of Commandments contained in ordinances. Now you got over here that the Law is spiritual. Do you see what I’m talking about–you understand what I am talking about? See now that’s what reading the Bible will get you into. Read on.
Mary Gross: For to make of Himself of
Dr. Kinley: To make of himself
Mary Gross: Of twain
Dr. Kinley: Of twain
Mary Gross: One new man
Dr. Kinley: One new man
Mary Gross: So making peace
Dr. Kinley: “…so making peace.” Do you follow what I mean? Now you fool around and you say: “Well the Jews they’re going back to Jerusalem.” [You] said, “God said that He would bring them out of all the countries and gather them back unto Himself.” Is that right? And now, they’re selling property and going back over there. Now you just read that He abolished in His flesh the enmity and made just one. Repeat that last thing He said.
Mary Gross: Having abolished in His flesh the enmity
Dr. Kinley: The enmity
Mary Gross: Even the Law of Commandments
Dr. Kinley: Even the Law of Commandments
Mary Gross: Contained in ordinances.
Dr. Kinley: Contained. Do you see, “…contained in ordinances.” Now see if you read — if you put that in there like it belongs, you see, and like the Apostle is talking about it and when he said that the Law is Spiritual and we establish the law, he was not talking about the Law contained in ordinances. You see what I mean? NOW THE LAW WE ESTABLISH IS THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE! You want to read that? Now He hasn’t abolished that; that’s what brought the Universe into existence. And WE DO ESTABLISH THAT; and HE WASN’T THE END OF THAT!
Now do you follow what I’m saying? See I’m trying to show you how people go in this book and mess it all up and got you all confused. And [they] don’t know what they’re talking about. Now the best you can do is read. You understand? Don’t comment! You see what I mean? Don’t comment; because if you do, somebody will call you on
the carpet about something you said over here. In other words, they got the Apostle himself fighting against his own self. You see. [They] got him disputing [himself].
Now we just talked about the Jews going over there. Is that right? Now, since you’re in Romans — you were in Ephesians there. You see. Alright read: Romans 2nd chapter verse last.
Mary Gross: For he is a Jew which is one inwardly
Dr. Kinley: You better read the verse above it.
Mary Gross: For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly.
Dr. Kinley: Now you see, there is no such thing so far as the outward. And right while I’m on that I want to tell you He wasn’t no Jew — only as pertaining to the flesh coming through the Law. He was the Lord from heaven! Yahweh Elohim from Heaven, see, and that’s the reason why it broke down that wall of partition between them and made within Himself one spiritual man wherein there is no such thing as a Jew or a Gentile, a male or female or a bond or a free. Now how about that? Didn’t say made no one woman out of them either. Do you follow?
Now, a lot of these things that I tried my best to bring out to you, you see, oftentimes see they’re misunderstood. Do you follow? Finish reading your verse, and I’ll tell you something.
Mary Gross: For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly
Dr. Kinley: For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly
Mary Gross: Neither is that circumcision
Dr. Kinley: Neither is that circumcision
Mary Gross: Which is outward in the flesh
Dr. Kinley: Which is outward in the flesh
Mary Gross: But he is a Jew
Dr. Kinley: But he is a Jew
Mary Gross: Which is one inwardly
Dr. Kinley: “…which is one inwardly.” I said I was a Jew. Somebody said, “Naw you’re not. You’re a…. You’re a something else. You’re a Gentile.” Do you follow what I’m talking about? Read on.
Mary Gross: And circumcision is that of the heart
Dr. Kinley: And circumcision is that of the heart
Mary Gross: In the Spirit
Dr. Kinley: In the Spirit
Mary Gross: And not in the letter
Dr. Kinley: And not in the letter
Mary Gross: Whose praise is not of men, but of Yahweh
Dr. Kinley: “…whose praise is not of men, but of Yahweh.” Do you understand what I’m talking about? But now listen, if circumcision is not outwardly — you see? Yes they did! They circumcised him outwardly! Both men and women had an ordinance to that effect. Do you see what I’m talking about? But now that’s only a type and a shadow. It took it outward only to show you the inward. It took it natural to show you the spirit. Do you follow what I am talking about? Now let me put this together. If you were able to follow that. Then, if circumcision being in the flesh — outwardly in the flesh — as a type of circumcision in the spirit, why is it you can’t see that all the rest of those are carnal ordinances? What’s the matter with you? Do you see what I’m talking about?
Now the first ordinance that was given to Israel — the first one was circumcision. Now that didn’t exempt anybody see. Why? Because everybody was involved; and you carry it on back we say the Gentiles, too, was circumcised. That’s how that disputation came up there in
the 15th chapter of Acts of Apostle. Nobody could eat the Passover without being circumcised. Do you follow?
Now, I’ll get back to what I was going to say to you. Now last night we had this meeting up there at Dr. Gross’ house called at 8 o’clock, and when I got upstairs and looked at the clock it was 10:20. And we’ve often spoken — and I said it three times last night. If you play the recording back, I said it three times last night: the same thing in the reply to three different types of questions. I said the same thing. I could tell you the questions, but I won’t do that. I won’t tell you all of it.
Now this was the purpose of the meeting. We tell you the same thing all the time; we don’t never tell you nothing no different. The purpose of that meeting was for you to become conscious of Yahweh and His eternal purpose, because we are right down to the end of this time. Now are you listening? I tried to tell you that the Holy Spirit speaks through this body. I tried my best to tell you that. Now Dr. Mathess just got through speaking; you know that. When Yahweh spoke from Mount Sinai, something happened; you get your newspaper. Now you can just do anything with you want to do to suit yourself, but you ought to be here. And, I told you: “I was gonna stay here.” And I told you that shaking up signifies the removal. Did it shake?
Audience: Yes Sir! Right on time.
Dr. Kinley: Everything I’m gonna tell you I’m not trying to show myself as nothing. See our primary objective down here is to honor and glorify our Father. That’s all we’re concerned about see. The admiration of personalities and individuals and all them kind of things, we don’t care nothing about that. Yahshua the Messiah said in the 24th chapter of Matthew, “…Unless these days be shortened.” Now you’re just not going up to AD 2000! There ain’t gonna be no overtime. You follow what I am saying? And I tried my best to make you conscious of that before we pull the curtain down or before the curtain rains down on this age. Do you see what I’m talking about? Do you understand? Now that brings me back to say this about this LOVE and LUST. Yahweh so LOVED the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He did not have to LUST after the world. He LOVED it. Now if you want to, you go ahead and take that in sex. It’s not that way though. See.
Now let me go on a little further with that and see if you’re gonna be able to follow me. I could have employed other different words, but I didn’t want to. Now some of the reasons why I didn’t want to is on this account: Cause some of them have went out of here and said — circulated it all around and said — they didn’t want nothing to do with that school because we advocate swapping wives. See. Get it? Said we advocate drinking booze. You understand? The Devil will say anything in order to distort you! You see? Now when they come around and they find out that we don’t teach Carnal Ordinances [and] Water Baptism, now you’re wrong there — just know you’re wrong! If you don’t teach Lord Suppers, you’re wrong there, see. And you folks down there you take one another’s wives. You do this; you do that. You do the other. They’ll say anything about you!
Now I want to know from you. Before we came here we had these problems, and it dogged this entire school, see. And everything that’s done they would blame it on me. See what I mean? [They] said that man teaches this. He teaches that, and he teaches the other. You understand? Now I want to know anybody in this building that ever heard me say or ever heard me teach that you leave your wife and go marry somebody else or get somebody else, stand up! Hurry up and do it so I can call you a liar to your face! I never told nobody to do that; never taught nothing like that in my life. They say I did, and we had all kind of fights. Now here’s the story. Some have went over here and done this, see. Others have went over here and done that, and then blamed it on me. Then I get up in the pulpit and I teach. And then they go and say: “Well, he don’t mean it like you took it.” Like I didn’t have sense enough to say what I tried to explain. Do you follow what I’m talking about? Now how I said that about — [I] used that word “LUST” on purpose.
Now I want you to know something about this old whore. Do you see what I am talking about? Why don’t you have something to say about her? You see what I mean? That’s his body out there. That’s his organization; that’s his church. You get me now? Now that’s what he’s advertise — advocating. LUST. See he wants every last one of you. He’s an adulterer. He’s not only the father of lies, he’s a liar himself. Now that’s the right and the wrong of it! And that’s why I used the word as I did, see. You follow?
Now they asked Messiah — look I know what’s in the book! They asked Messiah about a man putting away his wife and marrying another (right?) while his first wife yet lives. And He told them. He said, “Whosoever puts away his wife…” (You want to read that? If you don’t think it’s in the book, I’ll read.) “…and marries another commits adultery.” That’s what he said! Now some of the churches is out there teaching people that Christ said that whosoever puts away his wife and marries another while his wife lives is in adultery. Now look He did say that. You got it?
Dr. Harris: Yes sir.
Dr. Kinley: Where are you reading now?
Dr. Harris: 19th Chapter of Matthew the 3rd verse. The Pharisees also came unto Him tempting Him.
Dr. Kinley: “…tempting Him.” Now you see what they done. They come unto Him tempting Him, see, a lot of these hypocrites. All right, read.
Dr. Harris: Tempting Him and saying unto Him, “Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?”
Dr. Kinley: Is it lawful for a man to put away is wife for every cause?
Dr. Harris: And He answered and said unto them
Dr. Kinley: And He answered and said unto them
Dr. Harris: Have ye not read that He which made them
Dr. Kinley: Wait a minute! “Haven’t you read where He that made them male and female….” Is that right?
Dr. Harris: He that made them at the beginning made them male and female and said:
Dr. Kinley: And said
Dr. Harris: For this cause
Dr. Kinley: For this cause
Dr. Harris: Shall a man leave Father and Mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they twain shall be one flesh.
Dr. Kinley: All right. Read on.
Dr. Harris: Wherefore they are no more twain but one flesh
Dr. Kinley: They’re one flesh.
Dr. Harris: What therefore Yahweh has joined together
Dr. Kinley: “Now what therefore Yahweh….” See, can’t you read? “What Yahweh has joined together…” Read on.
Dr. Harris: Let not man put asunder
Dr. Kinley: See. He said let not man put asunder. Now look here. Do you know who divided these sexes up here? Read on.
Dr. Harris: They said unto Him
Dr. Kinley: They said unto Him
Dr. Harris: Why did Moses then
Dr. Kinley: Why then did Moses
Dr. Harris: Command to give a writing of divorcement
Dr. Kinley: Command to give a writing of divorcement
Dr. Harris: And to put her away
Dr. Kinley: And to put her away
Dr. Harris: He said unto them, Moses, because of the hardness of your heart
Dr. Kinley: Because of the hardness of your heart
Dr. Harris: Suffered you to put away your wives
Dr. Kinley: Suffered you to put away your wives
Dr. Harris: But from the beginning it was not so
Dr. Kinley: See. You see what I’m talking about? Now whosoever that Yahweh has joined together — that’s the reason why I went over there and got that one man — and there will be no divorce: not on this side of the cross.
Suppose the woman you call — or the man you call your husband or your wife — suppose he’s your enemy? Well hate him and love your friend. Do you follow? I’ve never taught nobody this bunch of junk that people say that I taught them — different women and all these kind of things. But people come up here and they do not understand. You see? They do not understand what we’re talking about. They don’t have no idea — don’t have no knowledge of it at all. [They] don’t understand nothing about it [not] thing the first.
Now he never — He was talking to the Jews back there. And I’ll have you to know that we do have a divorce from the flesh! And, that we are — not going to be — but are married to another; and then there will be no divorce from that. Do you all understand what I’m talking — do you understand what I’m talking about?
See these conflicts and these erroneous things — the Devil will just say anything to you to keep you from coming down here to this school. You see what I’m talking about? Now he’ll get you over there in his old assignation house, and you become his bride. Now if you’re over here, he LUSTS after you. Do you know what I mean by over here? If you’re in the spirit, he wants you; and he’s doing every conceivable thing that he can [to get you]. And anytime he can come around and look and see anything at all he’s got a gripe about it. Do you follow? Have you all gotten anything out of it?
Audience: Yes sir! Sure have.
Dr. Kinley: I just wanted to show you how you could read the Bible and mess it all up every kind of way. You blame Yahweh for this, and you’re out here following the Devil. And some of you say, “Well look, now let me tell you something.” Said huh, “Tell you something — I’ll tell you. I tried like everything to get along with my wife, and we just can’t make it. So what do you say about it?”
I’ll have you know that a lot of these people setting in this school, they have been to me and asked me about the marital problems. They’ve had troubles. And look that don’t leave me out. Ain’t none of you had nothing I haven’t had. No accusations been brought against you that ain’t brought against me. And say, all of it wasn’t from outside there either, some of it was right in here. You see what I am talking about? And they accused me of things. And I had to call meetings to straighten it out and made recording of it. They accused me of separating folks. Do you follow?
But the reason why I brought all of this up is I want you to know that it is better — Wallace it would be better or Roger or Freddie or any of you — it would be better for you to go home and pack up your little grip and get out rather than to stay there and kill somebody. See it would be better to do that. I have taught that! And if your wife — now I’m in the 7th chapter of Romans. You were reading over there and in the 7th chapter of I Corinthians: both places — it’s in your book! [It] said “If the unbelieving depart, let her depart.” Is that what it says? Let her depart. And I’ll have you know that it says right there a brother or a sister is not under bondage! You’re not under bondage to the Devil. Now how do you like that? Then somebody will say, “Well doesn’t the Bible say obey your husband?” Yes! [It] all depends on who your husband is! “Hah, hah, hah,” You see what I mean?
It’s wonderful ain’t it. Now you come on back tonight see; you come on back. Now we don’t want to hold you overtime. I think I heard the bell. He ain’t rung it yet, but I think I heard it. But now you come on back tonight.
And we told these ministers — that is what ministers we have black and white — we want them to get up here and preach. Preach with the spirit and demonstration of Power, because we are right down now to the pulling down of the curtain. Don’t you be hypocriting around here. Don’t do that! Recognize and realize that we are right down to the end and we’re dead serious about it. You see what I mean? We’re dead serious about it, no fooling. No fooling! And we’re not trying to dodge no issues either. And I don’t think — I don’t think that it’s anybody down here that knows any more about it than me. Now you may think otherwise. See, you may think I’m deceived. You see the point? I don’t [think I am]. I don’t think it’s anybody down here knows anything more about it than you that have been around here for a while.
I don’t think that people can just drift in off the street, you understand, sit back and cross their legs, [and then] they half-way pay attention. They don’t know nothing about what you’re talking about. [They think,] “Well, them people ain’t right. I don’t think you can do that.” You see? You follow what I mean? Cause I just got through showing you how they tangle up the book. You see what I’m talking about Roger? Read over here, you can’t make no comment much. You see when you get over yonder — you can’t tie it in; and you got the same man all messed up. You see what I’m talking about? Misunderstandings and all those kind of things, see, in the Mystery of God.
Now that’s how the Devil has deceived you. And now he speaks in the Vatican. You understand? That is the LEWD WOMAN, that is the APOSTATE, that is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, that is that from which Yahweh is calling YOU OUT OF. CONFUSION. You understand. Calling you out of it! Now listen, you either come out or abide by the consequences!
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