22) FEBRUARY, 1969: QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley
Los Angeles, California
audio cassette recording received from Lee Warren (#23)
1 90 minute audio cassette
Catalog #: 69.02 QA
transcribed by Bridget Richardson
first proofreading: Michael Rothstein
second proofreading: Gerry Rothstein
third proofreading: International Public Relations Committee
approved by the International Public Relations Committee: 1997
1. … indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.
2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or it Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.
3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, see, you see, you see what I mean, you follow, is that right.)
4. ___ indicates an inaudible word or syllable
5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber
Dr. Kinley: …. about what we teach. And since there is so much confusion in the world, we thought that it would be well if we answer some of these questions so that you’ll have a profound knowledge of what we’re talking about and what we’re teaching in the school.
Now one of the things that I do want you to pay strict attention to is this. Now if you were going to the grocery store or any place and you had a dollar bill and you went in and bought a few little items that didn’t cost over a dollar. And the clerk, he rings up each amount, what ever the item cost. And then he pulls it out of the cash register and tell you what the cost of it is. Now here’s what I’m trying to say. This is the part I want you to see about this teaching. Now there’s no sense in us being confused and tangled up and messed up and having a whole lotta interrogations and questions is our mind about what the cost is or how to add the thing up or whether you’re able to pay the price.
Now anything that you can imagine, be it ever so humble or be it ever so academic or even if it’s what you call one of them intermediate interrogations or questions, what we want you to do is to get it off your chest. And we wanna tell you that what we teach in this school is superior to what they teach anywhere.
And now what we’re going to do is this: we’re going to take what is and put it together in such a way that you can understand it, so that you won’t have no, no, excuse to how much the bill is; in other words, we’re gonna put this two and two together. And we will do it, listen now at what I’m saying, we’re gonna do it from the Godhead through the angelic host, through the physical creation, all down through the ages and back into the realm of eternity. Now that’s what we’re gonna do and that’s what we will do it you so request.
So now if there’s any question in your mind about this teaching and what not, and you wanna know something about it, now’s your break. Now you can’t do this when somebody is up here on the floor preaching. You don’t have the privilege and the opportunity to do this, but now you are going to have this opportunity. So what we’re gonna ask you to do then, if you have a question, why raise your hand so we can do it in order and then we.., then let us know who you’re directing your question to, and we will answer it. And we want an answer to your satisfaction, and we’re not gonna stop until we answer to your satisfaction, but now look here, when we have proved the thing to you, that’s the best we can do. Now if you don’t wanna except (accept?) the truth, there’s nothing we can do about it. You understand that too, don’t you? Can’t.., we just can’t.., we can’t help that.
Now as Doctor Traynham has already told you, now here’s the seriousness of it that effects every human being under the sun. This is the seriousness of it. You are just about to come down to the general judgement that they been talking all through the years. That’s what you just about to come to. And you’re gonna have to give an account. This thing is not gonna continue on this way. Now there isn’t anybody, any nation under the sun but what don’t know that.
Now there was some question about, let me say this before we get into it. There was some question about Nixon being the President of the United States of America. Before when he run, he failed. He run for governor of California, he failed. But I just wanna drop this little hint in your ear and I suggest that you go home or go to the library, go somewhere and try to find out something about it, so that you will know something about the man you got in the White House. Now Richard Nixon is a Quaker. Quakers do not believe, they do not believe in carnal ordinances, none of ‘em. They believe that you are living in a spiritual dispensation. The Quakers are closest to what we teach than any other denomination under the sun.
Now if you noticed, during what.., he hasn’t been in there but just about two weeks now. And what he has said to begin with, he give.., according to the constitution of this country, he said that every man is entitled to the opportunity and the privilege to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience and his own vine and fig tree. I’m just kinda talking about the constitution in a indirect way; in other words, it’s religious freedom and privilege to worship anyway you want to; that’s the constitutional right that you have in this country. But now when it comes to the constitutional right to worship according to the dictates of your own conscience and under your own vine and under your own fig tree, I would have you know that Roman Catholics have dominated the White House for many, many years. I want you to know that. And a lot of the laws that you have and amendments have been resolutions that have been adopted by the Roman Catholics.
Now the Roman Catholics, they believe this, that the Pope has the ecclesiastical and the legal and the political rights to rule the world. Now I’ve tried to bring you up to date a lotta times about these things. I’ve tried to awaken you. There’s nothing else but Satan incarnated in a physical body setting in the Vatican, that’s what it is. And this last thing they pulled, this birth control thing has got ‘em in trouble. It’s just abou..; in other words it’s flattened the Roman Catholic Church. And they’re striving to continue, prophetically. Babylon was or confusion was to fall within one hour, one hour of the consummation. Now when you figure out that one hour, one hour prophetic time is about 41 years, not quite 41, 41. 41 years prophetic time. Now what I mean by prophetic time is one day for a year. Now if 1960 was 40 years from there to AD 2000, that would be just one hour. And that would be the last hour. So then, figuring from 1960, well then the Roman Catholic Church had to, well it happened.., it had to fall. Now is that clear to you? Babylon, the Mother of Harlots.
Now it don’t just, don’t get it in your mind now that it’s just the Roman Catholic Church only, because it is not that. That goes for Protestantism, that goes for all of the foolishness in the world or the confusion in the world. And now the genuine thing must come out. And we’re not trying to prop up nothing. Now listen, nation should against nation, kingdom against kingdom. Now you know that’s happening. Many false teacher’s and many false, not, not a few, many should come during this dispensation.
Now here is where the problem is. Here is where the problem is. I want you to know this. All down through the ages here, all down through here, you were dealing with the natural as Doctor
Student Body: Traynham.
Dr. Kinley: Traynham put the thought there from Nicodemus. Messiah said to Nicodemus, ‘now if I tell you of natural or earthly things and you don’t understand them, then how can you understand spiritual or heavenly things.’ You have no foundation whatsoever to build upon, so Yahweh in His all wise providence, listen to what I’m saying, He had made this whole natural universe for you to look at, you included. Every animate and inanimate object for you to comprehend Him. And all of it, every bit of it, terrestrial and celestial, points to that which you cannot see with your physical eye. Now here’s what that does, now that removes your excuse, that removes your alibi. That is the premises and the foundation upon which Yahweh Himself has predicated this purpose, so that you wouldn’t have no excuse at all for not understanding. So then what we have to do now is look at the natural as Doctor Traynham said just now, you never will see Yahweh in His totality. That’s an absolute impossibility. Why? Because you’re just a little man and the universe in its totality is embodied in Him and you can’t see everywhere at the same time. But now what He has done, He took on a physical form. I’m talking about Yahweh has taken on a physical form and that physical form is named Yahshua the Messiah, and He has come and demonstrated, He’s demonstrated. Now what do you mean by demonstrated? He healed the sick, He raised the dead, He stilled the tempest. And if all of the things that He had done was written in the Book, the world or the earth plane could not contain the Book.
You are made up as you are made up both masculine and feminine to point to the great inscrutable and incomprehensible Deity of this universe. Everything is made as it is for your education.
Now you come along and say you can if you wish, say there has been so many mistranslations and so many different things that have written, been written about this Bible, so many erroneous, scripts have been… Let me tell you what I mean by that. Unless I did somebody would mess up on it. They wouldn’t really realize what I was talking about. Roger, there has been no book of Enoch written. Enoch didn’t write no book. And you can go out here on the market and get a copy of it, says the Book of Enoch. Abraham never wrote no book. You can go out there and, and, and get something Abraham wrote. You can go out here and get the Talmud and the Mishnah. That’s a commentary, a hebrew commentary on the five books of the Bible stretched out to 15 books. Get the point? But, now let’s, see if there’s anything else. Yes, I told you last week and I told you many times, and you do well if you take heed. Plato, Confucius, Aristotle, Socrates, and those boys back before the birth of Yahshua the Messiah, they did not have a vision and a revelation. They’d didn’t have any. But now there’s no sense and no need of you going back there, trying to tell me something that Plato said. Plato just didn’t have the vision and the revelation. Then comes the question, well why didn’t he have it. Yahweh didn’t choose to reveal it to him. That’s why he didn’t have it. Get the point?
Now look, Moses, Moses wrote about Adam. Moses wrote about Enoch, Moses wrote about Melchizedek, Moses wrote about Abraham, Moses wrote about Isaac, Moses wrote about Jacob. Moses wrote. Where did Moses get it from? Yahweh showed it to Moses in visions and revelations. And He brought the thing right on down, Moses did, pedigrees and genealogies. If you were to be asked something about your progenitors and ancestors, just as.., well just this one generation or two, you wouldn’t know. So it would be a matter of impossibility, Bishop, for Moses to go back here and tell you something about Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel and Seth and so forth and so on. And incidently, you can get a book on Seth. You can just get any kind of fouled up script you wanna get out here on the market. And they claim these tables and these scripts have been discovered and dug up here and yonder.
Well, all this folly and foolishness is supposed to be presented in this age and in this dispensation. This present age and dispensation wherein you’re living now. This present age, right here. Now there’s ages yet to come; in other words there’s seven ages. Just to go back there and say the Ante Diluvian Age, the Post Diluvian and the Present Age, and the Ages yet to come, that don’t teach you anything about the other side of it over here, about the..; in other words, this is not all of the ages. That’s what I’m saying.
Now listen, nobody is immune from this, nobody’s excused. Now I told you, and then we’ll move, I told you that Yahweh sent me. My name is Henry Clifford Kinley. That’s my name. Now I’m just another man just like any other man. I didn’t have a thing to do with Yahweh giving me a vision. I didn’t have nothing to do with my mother’s pregnancy and my birth. ____ ____ Yahweh giving me a vision. Now what I have done, I’ve wrote it down. I placed it up here for your scrutiny and for your investigation or examination. Now if you wanna look at it, you wanna know something about it, we’re here to answer your questions. Now I, I wanna make this clear too. I did not go to school. I didn’t go, so you can’t credit it what I, what little I do know and I don’t know so much either. At one time, I had been very, very smart man, but I don’t know too much now. I’m like the Apostle Paul. He said, I am determined not to know anything but Yahshua the Messiah and Him crucified, yea, rather risen from the dead; a stumbling block to the Jew and to the Greeks it’s foolishness. I don’t know much, but I have been a very smart man.
Now look folks, listen. Want you to understand how this goes, unless you can prove a thing all the way through nature, all the way through the ages and the dispensations of time, it ain’t no good, just isn’t any good at all. I don’t care who said it. Don’t care who taught it and who believed it and how many of ‘em there are. That don’t make it right at all. But now what we’re here for is to show you that what we are teaching you here is not Kinley’s brains. It’s not Bishop Short’s brains, not Roger Jackson brains, not Leonard’s brains, not Dr. Harris’ brains, not Gross’ brains, not Dennis’ brains, not Gary’s brain’s, not Williams’ brains. Now there may be some other authorities, but the reason why we have these men up here is because they are authorities in this school. Now there may be some others sitting right here in the audience. I’d have to look at the register to know who they are, I don’t know myself. I know the top ones, but there’s, there’s some others setting right here probably looking me that ought to be up here so I want you to know that too. Now, now, let get this straight.
Now is there any question about this doctrine that is in your mind, be it ever so humble. We want you to.., I don’t care how long you been coming here, I didn’t ask about that. Or if there’s any question in your mind up and down here, we’ll take them too. Well then, let’s get together, let’s see what it’s all about. Let’s understand one another. So any questions anybody got to ask? If so, then direct your question to whoever you wanna direct it to. Ask what you will or may.
Man: I have a question. What did the
Dr. Kinley: Please stand up. We want everybody to hear what the question is.
Man: In Ezekiel’s vision, he mentions a wheel within a wheel, and I was wanting an answer on that, if one of the ministers would explain that, that in his vision that Ezekiel saw when he was in captivity. He mentions in his vision, he saw a wheel within a wheel and different forms, and the wings of angels and all.
Dr. Kinley: Doctor Harris, would you mind explaining to him?
Dr. Harris: We’ll take this natural question to show forth the spiritual. Moses built this tabernacle out here in the Wilderness of Sinai. This tabernacle represented this shape and form that was seen up there in the vision. Now gathered around the tabernacle in an irregular outline, were the 12 tribes on all sides, three on the east, three on the West, three on the north, and three on the south. Now this tabernacle situated here in the midst of Israel assembled around the tabernacle, that would be the wheel in the midst of a wheel. Because Israel was assembled around this tabernacle as I said in irregular fashion, all 600,000 of them, when they were assembled out there in the wilderness. Now then, if you take that and swing it around back up here to the cloud, then you see this shape and form here, which is in the bosom of the Father. That’s the wheel in the midst of the wheel. Then you bring in on down to the time when Yahshua the Messiah, He said, ‘believe that I am in the Father and the Father’s in Me’. So He’s the wheel and He’s in the Father in the midst of a wheel. Then when you come on over here to Pentecost, when the Children of Israel were receiving the Holy Spirit there on the Day of Pentecost, it’s described there as the woman clothed in the sun with the moon under her feet. So that woman which represents the body of the congregation or the assembly or the church, that is again as an expression of the wheel in the midst of the wheel. And you come on down to your own periodical situation and you being now clothed in the Son, that is if we have understanding, then we are as that wheel in the midst of the wheel.
Dr. Kinley: Somebody else has one? Would you… You got one?
Man: Yes sir.
Dr. Kinley: You satisfied with that?
Dr. Kinley: Do you understand it?
Dr. Kinley: We don’t want you to be satisfied within nothing until you understand it. Alright, give the lady the power and then we’ll answer your question. Alright.
Woman: 10 commandment
Dr. Kinley: Please try to talk loud enough so everyone can hear.
Woman: I don’t understand about the 10 commandment law.
Dr. Kinley: How’s that?
Woman: I don’t understand about the 10 commandment law.
Dr. Kinley: Now what is it you don’t understand about it?
Woman: That I want to know if we’re not living under the law, and I know why.
Dr. Kinley: Now. So we can get a clear understanding of what we’re talking about, I have to drag you out. Now you, what I wanna know now, you say that you don’t understand about us not being under the.., you want an explanation about that? Is that what you want to know? In other words do you wanna know whether we are under the law or not or you want it explained?
Woman: I want to know, if we’re not under the, I mean if we’re not under the law. And, I know why those are the things that He died on the cross and He.., in other words He fulfilled it, but yet…
Man: What is the spiritual.., I’ve got the same question you got. And that’s ____ ____ ____ ____ ____. What is the spiritual significance of the Ten Commandments? Is that what, is that the same question you asked?
Woman: How are we supposed to conduct ourselves now? ____ He died for me.
Dr. Kinley: In regards to the ten commandments?
Man: What is the spiritual manifestation or the meaning of it spiritually? The 10 commandments, those 10 commandments. Why those 10, in that order, the spiritual significance. They was talking about it physically but what is the spiritual significance of those 10 commandments?
Dr. Kinley: Now, now, now unless.., we have the same problem when we put somebody up here to preach. We have the same identical problems because the things that are being said often times are not understood. That’s what we’re conscious of. And now what we wanna know, we’ve got to get the question straight first so we can get the answer straight. Now, restate your question. Now put it, put it like you wanna know about it now.
Woman: Alright, then there were 10 commandments given.
Dr. Kinley: Yes.
Woman: And no one has been able to keep them. Now when Yahshua died on the cross, those 10 laws were fulfilled, but the only thing is.., I mean, I feel that we’re still under ‘em some kinda way. Are we supposed to follow those laws or what? They’re still being.., I mean ____ ____. ____ that’s ____ power, but what is the ____ ____ ____ now?
Dr. Kinley: Now we got you understood. Does everybody understand now?
Student Body: Yes.
Dr. Kinley: Everybody understands. Do you wanna to take that one? You’re directing your question to me or to him?
Woman: To you, I think.
Dr. Kinley: Or, or would it be alright if I confer to somebody else? Now here’s the reason why I wanna do this. I don’t wanna answer your question. Now here’s the reason why I don’t wanna do it: is because I want you to ask the ministers and all in here. Now if they don’t get it over straight and just move the chairs back. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) The fur is going to fly then. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Yes ma’am, yes sir, the fur will fly. And I will answer at least so you can get some satisfaction on it. Doctor Harris, would you mind?
Dr. Harris: Well, the difficulty that the young lady is having is in rightly dividing the Word of Truth, that is dividing between the natural and the spiritual. Now Yahweh spoke the 10 commandment law from Mount Sinai back here at the time that the Israelites were gathered around this mountain. Then Moses went up into the mount and saw the creation of the heavens and the earth. Now that was to typify that the whole creation came in under the law, but that was not the law of carnal ordinances. That was the Law of the Spirit or Spirit Law that brought the whole thing into existence. That was in operation way before this law that Moses.., that God gave to the Children of Israel assembled around this mount.
This Law of the Spirit that brought everything into existence, it always was and always will be. You have never at no time have gotten out from under that law.
Dr. Kinley: That’s right.
Dr. Harris: And when we talk about we are not under the law anymore, we don’t mean the Law of the Spirit, which we’ve always been under, but we mean the law or carnal ordinances that God gave to Israel as they were assembled around the mount. That was the law, which was a fleshly, natural law, as you read over there in Hebrews 9:10. ‘For the old covenant stood only in meat and drink and divers washings and carnal ordinances, til the time of the reformation;’ in other words, it was fleshly and natural. Yahweh was speaking to a carnal minded or a fleshly or natural minded people, so He gave them a natural and a fleshly and a carnal law or ordinance to go with the mind that they had. But.., and they couldn’t keep that. And He came in, He didn’t give it to them to keep in the first place. It was given actually to show them up; that is in their futility, in their inability to keep it, they were supposed to see something in that; in other words, you get down to the place where they say, ‘Lord, have mercy I just can’t make the grade.’ And every last one of ‘em that came to John to be baptized had to admit they had failed to keep the ten commandment law; in other words, they had to repent. Now it wasn’t intended that only one Man would be able to keep the law and that was the Man that gave it. He was personified here as Jesus, as they know out there in the world or Yahshua the Messiah. Now He fulfilled that law and moved it out of the way. And if He hadn’t done it, it would still yet be standing.
Now we wanna make the distinction of in regard to this too cause I discern just by your countenance Miss that you are not a Jew. Is that right?
Dr. Kinley: Well, this law never was given to you in the first place. Yahweh never did say nothing to the Gentiles about keeping this 10 commandment law back here at all. Never did said nothing to you about it. So what have we been trying to keep it for in the first place? It was given to the Jewish nation, never to any Gentiles at all. Now we’ve meddling in their business, we’re tampering around with something that wasn’t given to us in the first place. But the Gentile nevertheless, he has something that was written already in him from the time that God created the man that just let him know that certain things were wrong, and his conscience bothered him about things that he did, and God never had said nothing to him about thou shall not do this or thou shall not do the other. And Paul spoke about that when he said that the Gentile just did by nature…
Dr. Kinley: That’s right.
Dr. Harris: the thing that were contained under the law. Ain’t nobody else said nothing to him about not do this and not do the other, yet and still when he go out here and do something he has no business, something inside of him clicks and say, ‘you shouldn’t have done that.’ What it really was was this Spirit that he didn’t know nothing about operating in him.
So now you got the Jews failing to keep it and the Gentiles unable to keep it. Now this is the one that came in and kept it. Fulfilled it and moved it out of the way. When He moved it out of the way, I like to put it in this parabolic expression. It’s just like you go out today, you say, ‘well, the sun ain’t shinning (shining?) today, because the clouds have got the sun all obscured.’ When nature rolls back the clouds then you can see that the sun is shining. Now it’s been shining all the while, but the things that’s kept it hid from you was the fact that the clouds were in the way.
When He came in and fulfilled this law and moved it out of the way, then we are able to see the law of the Spirit which has been operating all the time. It was there all the time, we just didn’t know it. Now when it’s operating in you, nobody has to say anything to you about thou shall not do this and thou shall not do the other. But what’s happening in that case is that this Spirit is just gotten in you and just makes you do right. You got the I can’t help its, sure enough. You couldn’t do wrong if you wanted to. Just like when He had it in Him, He said which one of you convicted me of sin? Nare one of ‘em could convince Him that He was doing wrong. And that’s the way you’ll be too when you get that right thing in you. In fact when you get it in you, that’s what you are, you are Him. That’s what you are. Now that’s the law of the Spirit. Yeah, that law that’s, carnal ordinance been moved out of the way, but what’s controlling us now.., and we’re not without law as Paul said, ‘yeah, we establish the law. You’ve moved and fulfilled the law of carnal ordinances, but you establish the Law of the Spirit.’ And that’s more able to keep you, than this one was back here. And look, if it won’t keep you.., now we’re talking about we got it, and it is apparent that’s there, something wrong some kind of way, not that won’t keep you, you just might as well forget it. You might well give up. If you got the Holy Ghost and then you can’t act right, then ain’t nothing else to give you. Ain’t nothing else to give you, you go back to the old mosaic law and try to keep that? No. If the law of the Spirit won’t help you, it won’t keep you straight, you just might as well give up, say, ‘I’m just a gonner.’
Thank you very much. Did you understand now?
Dr. Kinley: Did you understand? I’d like to, I’ll give you a break in a minute. I know you have to go. Now here’s a question that I wanna add to what you said for your benefit. Now Dr. Harris covered it? But I just wanna make it specific. Now here’s my question. What did He give them the law from Mount Sinai for in the first place? Why did He give them the Law? You said was given to the Jews. Well not, why did He give it to the Jews? That’s a nice one, ain’t it?
Student Body: Yes it is.
Dr. Kinley: That oughta be a bird, don’t you think so? And look, we’re gonna have a scripture answer to it too. I want you to see why He gave it to them. Roger, you’re turning over here. Evidently he must know. Romans 5. Now this is why He did it. Roman 5, where do you start there in…, the 14th verse or above?
Fred Allen, Jr.: 12.
Dr. Kinley: 12th verse? Alright, 12th verse. Now you listen. That’s the reason why I say, often say, just reading the Bible with no knowledge of it, no understanding of it, you haven’t got nowhere. You see the point? Just quoting without an understanding don’t mean a thing. You gotta understand the difference between these dispensations. Don’t mean a thing. Now read.
Roger Jackson: Therefore
Dr. Kinley: Where are you reading? That recorder is going behind you there.
Roger Jackson: 5th Chapter of Romans, 12th verse.
Dr. Kinley: The 5th chapter Romans and the 12th verse.
Roger Jackson: Therefore
Dr. Kinley: Therefore
Roger Jackson: as by one man
Dr. Kinley: for as by one man
Roger Jackson: sin entered into the world
Dr. Kinley: sin entered into the world, that’s Adam.
Roger Jackson: and death by sin
Dr. Kinley: and death by sin
Roger Jackson: and so death passed upon all men
Dr. Kinley: so death passed upon all men.
Roger Jackson: for that all have sinned
Dr. Kinley: for all have sinned
Roger Jackson: For until the law
Dr. Kinley: For until the law
Roger Jackson: sin was in the world
Dr. Kinley: for until the law, that was given from Mount Sinai, from the fall of Adam until the law was given from Mount Sinai, sin was in the world. How that, how, how are we doing now? I could go you one better than that, I mean biblically so too. We try hard to explain. Before that it was in heaven, and it was cast out of heaven down on the earth, that’s what we’re trying our best all the time to tell you, in the form of Lucifer. Yahshua the Messiah said, I beheld Lucifer fall from heaven like lightening (lightning?). And you have in the 12th chapter of Revelations and you have in the third chapter of Genesis, and we’re struggling all the time, every day, every week, every Sunday, every time we come together, every day, to tell you these things because of all of this crime and this hatred and this malice, and nobody can escape. And listen, can’t nobody live right, you can’t do that. Somebody said, ‘don’t tell me, I been a Christian all my…’ Now, you ain’t been nothing. You’re not gonna be nothing. Get the point? It takes the real…
Dr. Kinley: … and all them satanic spirits was cast down into the earth plane, they were incarnated. Now at that time, there wasn’t enough bodies to go around. You just had that one woman and that one man. So now Paul is telling you that death reigned. Now this is the first man, from Adam down to Moses. And all of ‘em from Adam on down to Moses, every last one of ‘em was sinners. ‘Well hold it Paul, you got Enoch in there?’ Get the point? No, we ain’t gonna hold it. Death reigned from Adam, now all of ‘em was concluded under sin, everybody was not back there in the Garden in the form of a man, but everybody, listen at me now, everybody was deceived was in the loins of that one man. You get it now? So that man, the whole thing was concluded under sin from that one man, now everybody. Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned, they weren’t back in the garden in a physical form, but listen, they’re all concluded under that one man. So that that one man, Yahshua the Messiah, made atonement for all of us. That’s why they all had to be concluded under…
Now listen, death reigned from Adam to Moses. Now the Mosaic Law, she was of effect until Yahshua the Messiah come and fulfilled it. Now that’s what we mean from Adam, death reigned from Adam to Moses, pertaining to Mosaic Law. And when He come down here. It don’t mean that just when Moses come along with that ____. No, um um, it’s the law. Now here’s what, here’s what we’re asking. Why did God give the law in the first place to the Children of Israel? Why did He do that? That’s what we’re asking about. And that’s what we’re trying to answer. Alright, read on.
Roger Jackson: For until the law, sin was in the world but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Dr. Kinley: Sin is not imputed where there is no law.
Roger Jackson: Nevertheless,
Dr. Kinley: Wait a minute. Hold it, hold tight. There’s some more we don’t understand. When God told Noah to build that ark and you’re talking about Abraham and you’re talking about the other patriarchs. They didn’t have no law. For until the law, sin was in the world, they didn’t have it, and all of ‘em from there on down was concluded under that, under that Adamic transgression.
He was told to make an ark. Of course he was given an order to do it, Noah. Now let me tell you this too. Oftentimes we said, to the law and to the testimony, and then this is what somebody else thinks, they think that you have to start at the first one of the major prophets and go down to the minor prophets. That’s what they think. They think that’s what is meant when it says to the law and to the prophets. But I’ll have you to know that the prophets.., are you listening now? Enoch the seventh from Adam was a prophet. There always have been prophets, ever since the world began. How do you like that? But Enoch didn’t write no book. He prophesied but he didn’t write no book. John the Baptist was a prophet, but he didn’t write no book. Isaiah was a prophet, he wrote a book. Jeremiah was a prophet and he wrote a book, but that Enoch didn’t write no book. Now how you found out about Enoch being a prophet and how did you found out about him, what he said? ‘Behold the Lord cometh with ten thousand of His saints to execute judgement upon all that were ungodly.’ How you found out about it, Moses told you. Well how did Moses find out about it? You see how technical I am? Is because, now listen at me, there ain’t nobody hand it down, Moses saw it in a vision. He saw the whole thing. He saw Adam created, he saw Eve in the Garden, looked right at Yahweh create Adam out of the dust of the earth, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. And while I’m on that too, I wanna say this. It didn’t say, breathed into his mouth the breath of life. He breathed into his nostrils. Now shut your mouth. (DR. KINLEY TAKES A DEEP BREATH) See, see it’s a.., through the nostrils. You don’t.., you’re not supposed to breathe though your mouth, you’re supposed to breath through your nostrils. (HE TAKES A DEEP BREATH AGAIN) It’s the same thing: Yah Weh. I thought I’d cover that. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS)
Now death reigned from Adam to Moses, now listen, here’s how it was, after the similitude of Adam’s transgression even over them that had not sinned. Alright, move along now right quick. I know you have to go.
Roger Jackson: Nevertheless,
Dr. Kinley: Nevertheless,
Roger Jackson: death reigned from Adam to Moses even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression.
Dr. Kinley: Now don’t forget what we’re after now. I asked why did God give the law? That’s the question. Read.
Roger Jackson: who is a figure of Him that was to come.
Dr. Kinley: Who was a figure of Him that was to come. Read, I’m in a hurry.
Roger Jackson: not as the offence
Dr. Kinley: not as of.., read right on.
Roger Jackson: so also is a free gift: for it through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of Yahweh, and the gift by grace which is by one man, Yahshua the Messiah, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgement was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offenses unto justification. For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Yahshua the Messiah. Therefore, as by the offence of one, judgement came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover, the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin aboundeth grace did much more abound. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Yahshua the Messiah our Savior.
Dr. Kinley: I want to, I wanted Gal…
Dr. Harris: Galatians 3:19.
Dr. Kinley: That, that’s right.
Dr. Harris: Galatians 3:19: Wherefore then, serveth the law?
Dr. Kinley: Wherefore then serveth the law?
Dr. Harris: It was added because of transgression.
Dr. Kinley: Now listen folks, now look, our question is, now that was a run down that Roger gave you there. Same man talking. ____ ____ ____ ____ ____. Now listen, one, we’re asking the question, ‘well, why, why did He give the law in the first place? Would you mind reading?
Dr. Harris: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions.
Dr. Kinley: Now look up here. It was added because of the transgression. That’s why the law was given, that’s why the law was given from Mount Sinai. It was added because of the transgression. Now here’s what happens. We say it many a time, people say, ‘well now look, if it had been me, if I had been back there, I never would…’ You got an awful lot of confidence in yourself. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) ‘I never would have touched that tree.’ Now look at all of the ____, I know you have to go home. But anyhow I’d rather let of these other folks that are not ministers… Which one’s working? Now, now, now are we getting straight? So now if.., ____ ____, now listen. Alright you wasn’t back there in the garden. So then now if I gave Adam a law, now I’ll give you one Israel. ‘Where you at?’ Cause I gave him one, now I’ll give you one, let you try your hand at it. And then that’ll stop you from walking around boasting,’ if that had been me, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have never done that, I wouldn’t never done that.’ Up against the purpose of God. Now listen folks, Yahweh did not intend in the first place for a man to walk around on this earth plane in this physical body throughout the ages, He never intended that in the first place when He made that man; in other words, Adam wasn’t involved. And now somebody says here the other night, the Jehovah’s Witnesses said they, that God didn’t know Adam was gonna partake of the fruit of the tree. Just silly. Truth about it is, you just don’t know who Adam was.
Student Body: Right.
Dr. Kinley: And another thing you haven’t even got acquainted with your own self. Now we’re struggling hard to make you see. Now you see why God give ‘em the law? The law was added because of the transgression. Did you get that one? Now He can’t go back there and say, ‘well, if it had been me back there..’ ____ ____ ____ to him one, that he never done so well. There was no one of ‘em right. And look, I wanna tell you this folks. Now Roger read it there a while ago. Now listen at what I’m saying. Now this Adam back here, and this Adam here. Now that’s what He died for was that back there, because of the Adamic transgression. That’s what He died for. I might say this to you too, so you can wake up. Eve, Eve is Adam’s wife. Now Adam was not in the transgression. It was His wife that partaken of the fruit of that tree and gave it to him. Now if you don’t believe that I’ll read that to you. Now look, that typified and that showed you.., that’s what we’re trying to get over to you all the time, that typified and it showed you there that Yahshua the Messiah died for His bride or His wife just like Adam voluntarily died for his.., thems the thing we’re trying to get over to you. That’s it back there.
Now here comes along somebody that’s saying, ‘look, I don’t believe Jesus died out out here on the cross. I believe He was drugged,’ or what not and the other. No, that ain’t it. You’re drugged, psychological drug. You’re just down right stupid. And why should you come along and write something about this back here. And some people believed about one thing, and they don’t believe the other. Now do you see why He gave the law? Adam broke that and the law was added because of the transgression; and it’s magnified.
Now here you are, now listen close at this one, now here you are, you said, ‘if I was back there, I wouldn’t have done it,’ and here you are at the Mount Sinai and given the law, and they all broke it. Now here you are come on down here and you’re stupid enough to think that you gonna get out there and live right and all and you ain’t gonna break no law. And you don’t have nothing more than them folks did back there. It can’t be done. If you have to ha.., then you just might as well straighten up and quite playing hypocrite. Just straighten up and fly right, cause you can’t make it. He has to put His spirit in you and cause.., that, that’ll cause you to walk in His way. And listen, I want you to know this too. Everybody, male and female, that has the Spirit, they are, not saints, but sons of Yahweh or sons of God just like Yahshua the Messiah. And then you’re, you are now where He was then. And it’s the Holy Spirit in you that makes you a son. And that.., and listen, you can’t behave without it. Nobody never did. Now the same thing that, do this and do that and do the other, and don’t do this and don’t do that.., Yahweh, if you look at this, look at the New Covenant. Now this is what He said. He has given you Himself cause that’s the only hope if you try to see it.
Now are we cleared up a little bit more? Anybody else got any more questions? Did, did I make it clear? Do you understand now? Any more questions?
(PAUSE IN TAPE)
Dr. Kinley: … is a fulfillment of the law. Now let me say this. You are no more justified in doing unrighteousness now than you was back there in the Garden or under the law or anything. Nobody is justified in wrong doing. And nobody that has the Holy Spirit, and listen you don’t have to be peeking around corners see whether they gonna behave theirself, checking ‘em out and time out on probation and all that kinda jive and junk. You don’t have to do that.
Now the apostles, they walked around, they were disciples at that time and they were witnessing Yahshua the Messiah fulfilling the law and the prophets. They wasn’t watching to try to see whether He’s gonna live right or not. You see the point?
Anybody else got any questions? Hold up your hand if you have. Alright, I see that.
Woman: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE)
Dr. Kinley: Does everybody hear what she said?
Student Body: No.
Dr. Kinley: Can everybody hear?
Woman: What I don’t understand was: ____ ____ ____ you jumped to Adam and you made the statement ____ ____ ____.
Dr. Kinley: You don’t understand that? Well now she don’t understand the 40 in dealing with Adam and the correlation between that. Now look, should I let somebody else explain it? Do you want me, do you…
Dr. Kinley: Alright Freddy, and tell us quick. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) If you don’t tell ‘em real quick, we just might miss it.
Fred Allen, Jr.: The quickest way to explain it and make it real plain and simple. As you know, you take blood, water, 40, blood, water, 40, but you don’t see a 40 right here…
(PAUSE IN TAPE)
Fred Allen, Jr.: … You don’t have a place in your Bible to go pick up this 40 back here, but you can find it very easily when you understand the purpose of God. Now look, when Yahweh gave Adam, in the garden, that commandment, Eve was right in his loins. Okay, now liken that to when Yahweh spoke from Mount Sinai to the Children of Israel. Adam, I mean Moses and the Children of Israel. Now the Children of Israel is likened to Eve, and Moses is likened unto Adam. They both received the law at the same time. I want you to see that first. Now, Moses goes up into that Mount and he’s up there for 40 days. The first part of his 40 days up in the mount, the first seven days, he was seeing the creation come in. And then the 33 days, after, after that he was seeing the generation from Adam all the way down, that you have recorded there in Genesis. You follow me that way? Now look, the woman, Eve, in the Garden was in the transgression, disobeyed the commandment. Same case here when Moses come down out of the mountain, the Children of Israel had disobeyed the commandment. Now that was after 40 days, from the time He gave the law. I’m trying to point it back here first, it ____ first, then you correlate it over here, because when Moses come down out of the mount, and the same is when Adam recognizes Eve had partaken of the same thing. Now look, she was in the transgression first, and he partook of the fruit, willfully died for her. Israel had disobeyed the commandments here. Moses come down and brakes (breaks?) those tables of stone. You know the same thing; in other word, him breaking the stones, is the same as he, Israel breaking the law there. Just trying to show you the correlation. 40 days. 40 days he’s got to come out of there, so they both tie to the same thing.
Fred Allen, Jr.: Now you say, ‘well, I don’t see it.’ We’ll go back and get it one other way now. Adam was in the earth. Moses saw there or the beginning of time he went in that mount. I’m talking about, after, he was not revealed to Moses until the sixth day, then He rested on the 7th day, then he saw Adam, the prosperity come out from him in those generations. I’m talking about Adam now. Moses in the vision, Moses in the vision, he seeing Adam come forth out of the earth, and then he sees this seed come forth from him. Do you follow that now? Now that’s happening with him; in other words it’s 40 with him, when Moses comes out of that mount. So when he comes out himself, he’s got to come out at the self same time but he makes up the first portion of this vision is the seven. He’s in the earth, come up out of there and then he’s in the garden there. Say 33. That’s how old he was when he came out. Tying that 33 and the seven together making up 40. He’s got to come out at 40, so you have to have 40 here, 40 here, 40 here, all the way through. It’s gotta work the same way. To pick up Adam, you just have to see that Moses saw him the 40 days he’s up there in the mount. And when he, Moses come down out, the same as Adam coming out of that garden. Those two tie in together.
Man: ____ ____ ____ that was with him ____ ____ 40 and that seven.
Fred Allen, Jr.: You mean over here, 40 over here? Is that what you’re saying?
Dr. Kinley: Let’s just put up there…
Fred Allen, Jr.: That there is just a fulfillment of knowledge and under.., that there is fulfilled at Pentecost.
Man: What ____ ____ now?
Fred Allen, Jr.: That’s fulfilled at Pentecost. They didn’t understand what the, the High Priest’s function in the tabernacle through the Day of Pentecost. And the witness of it’s in tabernacle was the blood, water and the holy anointing oil which typified the spirit. They didn’t understand until Pentecost and that was at the end of that 40 year period. So that, ____ ____ happening at Pentecost and he’s… a lotta of the 40s on this chart are psychological or spiritual.
Dr. Kinley: down here. This is not a ____ ____. We wanna know. If you ask a question, ask it so everybody can hear. And then when I answer one, I wanna answer it so everybody can hear.
Woman: Yes, I’m satisfied.
Dr. Kinley: You’re satisfied. Alright. Any more questions? Now it’s time for us to dismiss the class. 10 o’clock. Now there’s been a whole lotta problems about getting out on time. There’s a whole lotta complaints about that. And as a rule I’m the most guilty offender down here. And the reason for that is because I’m trying with all there is.., I’m not trying to watch the clock.
Student Body: Right.
Dr. Kinley: I’m trying to get something over to you from the very word go and ____ and what’s got me deeply concerned, I can’t even sleep at night. And there’s no days, no time at all with what I coul.., just walk with that in my heart and in my mind all the time. Sometimes you don’t know it, sometimes I have to go off in the corner or shut the door some place, and I’m concerned to the extent until I can’t hold back the tears to save my life. I want you to know so bad, not what time it is.
Student Body: Yes.
Dr. Kinley: … than for me to take the time. But now we tried to give you an opportunity. Now you.., we’re gonna dismiss the class and it’s, you.., you seemed to have all the questions answered up. So then from here there’s supposed to be another hour.
Now here’s another thing, I, I want to tell you, don’t take them cups and get a cup of coffee and pass it on down in the steps and go out there and throw the stuff around out there in the street. Be clean, decent, and in order. And help us to try and keep this place clean. Don’t say, ‘well, I don’t have to be bothered with it.’ And you get up here. We’re opposed to all forms of unrighteousness.
Get these charts down and put ‘em where they belong there, and all those kinda things, and do what you oughta do. And I’ll try my best.., we’ll try to get this thing out and on time. Let’s stand and b… Any announcements?
END OF TAPE
About 18 Pages