Institute of Divine
Metaphysical Research®

How Can We Help?
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by Dr. Henry C. Kinley


Los Angeles, California


audio cassette recording received from Beverly Allen

1 90 minute audio cassette


Catalog#:  71.06 SS


original transcriber unknown

first proofreading:  Michael Rothstein

second proofreading:  Gerry Rothstein


third proofreading:  International Public Relations

approved by the International Public Relations Committee:  1997



1. … indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.

2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.

3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, see, you see, you see what I mean, you follow, is that right.)

4. ____ indicates an inaudible word or syllable

5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber

Moderator:  … our founder, Dr. Henry C. Kinley.

Dr. Kinley:  Thank you ever so much.  Now I know all of you enjoyed Dr. Woodland as he did explain.  That’s where all of the errors and mistakes are made.  Everybody wants to be a big shot, everybody wants to be smart with a big name.  Whatever you do let me be the big one.  There’s several places where the Messiah said it’s a weak heart that destroys the mind.  And if we could just get out of the way once, get yourself out the way, why then, we could learn something.

He made me think about the way I tried to teach after I had that chart made.  And while I’m on that I want to mention this:  this is a bed sheet but now you wouldn’t.., I don’t know of a bed sheet that would be this short.  Now a part of the bottom of this has been cut off because it was raggedy, so it’s not all there, all of the bed sheet’s not there, cause somebody might have wondered about that, but Dr. Gross has pictures.  And when I was sitting there I was thinking to myself, I said I wasn’t gonna make no more charts.  And since he put this, Dr. Gross and Sister Mary, they work with this, put that up there so nice and since he has the photograph of this down here, that would be nice, wouldn’t it?  Now here’s where some of the problem is in trying to teach from this chart.  You come right out of the chaosis and it appears to be in the Law here, but now the bottom part of it carried the in between, and because we couldn’t get all them ovals in there to explain it, so but we put ‘em down here on the bottom.  Well the bottom is off, so that kind of left us kind of bob-tailed right there.  But I thought I’d tell you about that.

But the reason why I mentioned all of that is because there just isn’t really no excuse and I wouldn’t like to think that anybody was that dumb on the word.  Now I mean that there ought not to be nobody here that silly that couldn’t understand that Yahweh said, even a fool, a highway shall be there, it shall be called the way of holiness, a fool shall not error therein.  Now how in the world, as big a fool as anybody wants to be, now anybody can see that this thing here, this trip, this migration, the Red Sea divides Egypt from the Wilderness.  Now any fool can see that.  I mean look at it with physical eyes the way it’s drawn out.  And if you don’t believe it’s that way, then go on over there.  See for yourself.  There’s the River Jordan, it divides the Wilderness from there.  Now you just got, that’s all you got, just a 1, 2, 3, just a 1, 2, 3, just 1, 2, 3, same here in the atom, and in the proton, I mean in the atom and also in the cell.  Now you just don’t have no excuse.  Try reading that once.  People think that they’re, they’re gonna run up in the judgment, and say, ‘well look here God, if I had known, if somebody had just called my attention to it, why I, I, I would have done this but I didn’t know, didn’t nobody tell me.’  But that won’t work.  My, my advice to you is not to go up there like that.  That’s right.  You ain’t got no excuse.  Yahweh abolished everybody’s excuse about everything.

Now this is another thing too that I wanna mention.  I set and thought about this today:  being deceived.  Now there’s nobody that understands what it’s all about that’s gonna try to deceive somebody.

Audience:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Nobody on earth that understands what it’s really all about is going to try to deceive anybody.  I want that to sink in.  It’s somebody that don’t understand that’s trying to make somebody think that they do understand when they really don’t.  Now how about that?  Ha.  No.., nobody that really understood the thing would be trying to fool anybody at all.  Now that’s kind of bad, wouldn’t you say, when you look at the world, Christendoom over.  Now just like Billy Graham, now it sounds alright.  Billy Graham, he was on the TV tonight, might have been on the ____ ____, I just happened to stumble up on him there.  I was fooling around with the channels there looking for something and stumbled up on Billy Graham, so I listened.  And he finally called for them that want to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior.  I thought to myself, ‘ha, ain’t, ain’t that something, as his personal savior!’  Now when you stop to think about personal, you’re talking about the flesh.  Now the whole thing’s got to be changed.  Ain’t a bit of it gonna be saved.  So now that does away with, as he said so comically a while ago, black folks, they wanna be recognized, and the white folks they wanna be recognized, and the red folks they wanna be recognized.  They just had a scrimmage there today, out there on opposite sides, ha.  Everybody want’s to be something.  Now I told ‘em around here whenever you can get one in, do something to keep him.  Keep him around long enough for him to get his eyes open.  And the it.., now that means this:  get him on a board, or plank, or raft, or ship, on some kind of committee, or do something, put some responsibility on him so you can keep him, (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) put him in the choir or something.  Nobody wants to sit there and be a seat warmer.  Let him sing or do something.  Can’t do that.  Pat your hands, Ha.  Ha.  Yes. (DR. KINLEY AND STUDENT BODY LAUGH) You’re supposed to be busy in this school.  There you are at work.  Now they that went in the early morning, they worked on down to the 11th hour, and finally the 11th hour here come in some, that’s where you come in at, when they all got paid off, all of ‘em got a penny a day.  Looka here I’ve been working all day and this fellow ain’t been working but one hour, and they’re getting what I got.  Ha.  Ha.  He don’t get no more righteousness than you do, Ha.  Ha, all or none.  And as He said, you’re a testimony against your own self.

Now the reason why I thought maybe I would get up tonight, now we said so many things that are true, but they’re hard.  It’s hard for somebody to digest and assimilate something that they have been taught all their lives.  You’re just not going to get over those things overnight.  And then you can go on for quite sometime and every once in awhile that thing will spring up again, you just have to…  And you think about all of your folks on back, just so you don’t go back too far, cause if you do that, if you back too far, then you’ll run back into him back there. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) And it tells you there that all have sinned, have come short, from the fall of Adam so don’t carry him back too far.  Now it’s alright if you wanna bring it forward and get into this second Adam, which was Yahshua or the Elohim from heaven.  That’s alright, you should do it that way.

But now look folks, with all of the earthquakes…  Now you stop and think now, with all of the earthquakes, tornados, cyclones, air pollution, that breath you breathe.  Remember how Elohim breathed into the nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul.  Well, now the atmosphere which you breathe is full of carbon dioxide.  And it’s a lot of people have to leave different places and try to go to some other place on the account of smog, or like that.  Now, now that is the air you breathe.  The water you drink is polluted and contaminated.  Now the food, DDT and insecticide that they have to spray on it, in order to raise anything to keep the worms and the bugs from eating it up.  And food poisoning, now they canned up food, and it used to be that you opened a can and they’d tell you to empty it right away, don’t let it set there in the can but empty it right away to keep it from getting poison.  Ptomaine poisoning is what I’m talking about.  Now here’s what I’m getting after:  now for you to sit up and be a big enough fool to think that the end ain’t coming, look at India, Cairo.  Down in Korea they had problems down there.  You can’t leave out of this country going overseas without getting some kind of shot, ____ ____ ____ then you just walk around just stupid.  Scientists are saying now that the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Great Lakes, and everything have been dumped into them, and they’re just as polluted and contaminated as they can be.  And no longer than this evening they were talking about the soldiers returning and giving them a job of cleaning up the Great Lakes, on TV.  It may be in the paper and it may be on TV again tonight, but that’s what they’re talking about.

Now, here’s another thing too:  now our boys that they’re sending overseas, they go over there and they pick up these narcotics, come back, they’re drug addicts; in other words, if they don’t get killed one way, they’re killed another.  There just isn’t any way of escape, and nobody is safe.  Look at the man out there, killing 25 people right under your nose.  And listen here, let me tell you this:  the courts is all piled up, they’ve got case after case.  The hospitals are all filled up.  And it doesn’t make any difference what’s the matter with you and how bad you need treatment you have, have to sit, you have to wait.  Well you say, ‘I know, but this is a case of emergency.’  Well just go head on and die, you gonna die anyhow.  And you won’t be the first one that’s ever died and you’re not the only one that’s dying around here.  Now these are just sober thoughts.

And now just like Billy Graham said again, that couldn’t nobody prove the existence of God.  You don’t have to worry with that.  Why?  Because He proved His own existence.  And I’ll tell you, and you carry that same badge of identity around on you all the time, you’re made in the likeness and image of Yahweh Himself, and the universe and its totality.  There isn’t anything else, just like the earth plane.  Now you stop and think about this, take this home with you and you do some thinking about it.  It will help if you do that.  And that’s why.., now here’s what I’m talking about.  Now take that Romans 1:19-20.

Dr. Harris:  Because that which may be known of Yahweh

Dr. Kinley:  For because that which may be known of Yahweh

Dr. Harris:  Is manifest in them

Dr. Kinley:  Is manifest to and in them.  Alright.

Dr. Harris:  For Yahweh has showed it unto them

Dr. Kinley:  For Yahweh has showed it to ‘em.  And He showed.., and to everyone that he showed the thing to, they all speak the same thing.  Alright, read on.

Dr. Harris:  For the invisible things of Him

Dr. Kinley:  Now look.  For the in.., that makes me stop right there and go over to the 1st chapter of Colossians and get that invisible Deity there.

Mary Gross:  Who is the image of the invisible El

Dr. Kinley:  Where are you reading?

Mary Gross:  Colossians 1:15

Dr. Kinley:  Colossians 1:15.  Now it’s the image of the invisible.  Now we tell you all the time that you see this here through a vision.  I remember one time I was teaching school in the YMCA and a Sister walked up to me and she said, ‘Dr. Kinley, do you, do you really believe in ghosts?’  She’d been working on that thing for a long time.  I said, ‘yes, don’t you?’  ‘Well I don’t know.’  I said, ‘don’t you know that your body’s breathing is by the Holy Ghost?’  Ha.  Ha.  Ha.  ‘And now you mean to tell me you don’t believe in it?’  People just say things and they ain’t paying no attention to what they’re saying.  Now He’s the image of the invisible El.  Alright, read.

Mary Gross:  The first cause of all creation

Dr. Kinley:  Now the first cause, now if you really stop and think about that, now here’s somebody running out here saying, ‘God didn’t create the devil.  ‘Say, He’s the first cause of all creation.  Now I’m sure the devil didn’t create hisself.  If he did, he’d be co-eternal with Yahweh.  Well somebody say, ‘well he ain’t no good.’  I thought everything that God created was good and very good.  Right?

Audience:  Right,

Dr. Kinley:  You thought right that trip.  Well, somebody will said, ‘well do you mean to tell me that the devil is good?’  Sure.  He’s good for what He created for.  Sure.  He’s good and very good. (Dr. KINLEY LAUGHS) ____ ____ ____ Oh me, if we would just do a little thinking it would help out so much.  Alright that’ll do with that.  Now repeat Dr. Harris, them two verses there.

Dr. Harris:  Because that which may be known of Yahweh

Dr. Kinley:  Now because that which may be known of Yahweh

Dr. Harris:  Is manifest in them

Dr. Kinley:  Is manifested in them

Dr. Harris:  For Yahweh hath showed it unto them

Dr. Kinley:  For Yahweh has, He’s revealed it.  Alright, read.

Dr. Harris:  For the invisible things of Him

Dr. Kinley:  For the invisible, now we’re talking about the invisible El.  Now there’s some folks walking around here and they’re saying this, ‘I don’t believe in nothing I can’t see, touch, and feel, or taste and smell, or some kind of way, I don’t believe in that.’  Can you touch the wind or the air, or can you see the air?  You don’t believe in it?  People are just nutty for no good reason. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Alright, read on.

Dr. Harris:  For the invisible things of Him

Dr. Kinley:  Now for the invisible things of Him

Dr. Harris:  From the creation of the world

Dr. Kinley:  Now, wait a minute, now, now wait a minute, now let’s weight this thing out.  Now let’s weigh this thing out as we go along.  Now just to sit there and read that and skip on, you don’t get nowhere with nothing like that.  Now here’s what I mean.  Yahweh, from the very creation itself, the sun, the moon, the stars, and everything, everything that’s created, from the time that it was created, everything was made as it is made, for what purpose and for what reason?  Read.

Dr. Harris:  Are clearly seen

Dr. Kinley:  Now you can look at the visible and understand the invisible.  You can feel the wind blow.  As the Messiah told Nicodemus, you can’t tell where it come from or where it’s going.  And you say, some people say, ‘I don’t believe that.’  Look here comes up a tornado or cyclone, and you can’t get away.  ‘Yond goes your house.’  I guess you don’t believe in that. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) I’ll tell you, stupid.  Alright, read Dr. Harris.

Dr. Harris:  The invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen.

Dr. Kinley:  Now, Yahweh is making everything, as Dr. Woodland said there, Yahweh’s making everything as it is so you don’t have no kind of excuse, none whatsoever.  Now, here you’re gonna run up in His face and say, ‘well look, I really didn’t know.’  Billy Graham said, ‘can’t no man prove the existence of God, so I believed what Billy said, and I didn’t know no better.’  Don’t you go up there like that.  Don’t you try that.  For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made.  Now let’s get after that.  Now let’s get after that.  Now you listen at what I’m gonna say, and I’m gonna break it down this time.  Now we often say this, speaking about the Godhead.  Now the reason why we’re saying that, using that expression, the Godhead, is because people think, ‘well, God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost,’ and they call that the Godhead.  But now all of it is important.  I want you to understand what I’m talking about.  All that come from the Father, and there’s nothing else in existence but the Father in two manifestations.  Are you following me now?  Now, Yahweh made everything that He made so that you wouldn’t have no excuse, to abolish your excuse of anything you can find, it doesn’t make any difference what it is.  If it’s an atom or a proton, or a man, or a beast, or it just really doesn’t make any difference, whether its mineral, vegetable, animal, or what not, He made it that way so you just don’t have no alibi, and don’t have no excuse.  Now there’s no excuse for your stupidity.  Now, we’ll say it this way, say the same thing around the other way.  Now we’re talking about the Godhead and the universe.., now let me put this in here because somebody may think that the universe is just materialized, so then I’ll use it this way, the incorporeal and the corporeal parts of the universe.  Now look, that’s all that there is.  There isn’t anything else other than that.  That’s something to think about.  Did you know that?  Alright now look, now let me show you a stupe.  Now if you see how each one of these days is divided up into three portions:  just like this is one, one, two, three, and everything you got here is one, two, three, one, two, three.  This is the same over there on that chart, I’m trying to squeeze ‘em all, one two three, one two three, one two three, one two three.  What’s this?  This represents the Godhead and the universe.

Another important thing he said when he was up here:  ‘Whatever it is that you choose to take to try to disapprove the existence of Yahweh and His purpose..,’ whatever you take, doesn’t made any difference what it is now, now that’s what we need to prove that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.  Do you follow that line of reasoning?  That’s something to think about.  But there is so many manifestations and man just stumble over ‘em, he can’t see for looking, he can’t see nothing for looking.  Then he’ll let the devil come along and blindfold him.  Now you remember I said a while ago, nobody, nobody on this earth plane that knows what it is truthfully all about will try to deceive or fool somebody.  You can’t be like that.  You couldn’t even be like that even if you tried.  So the fellow out there that’s preaching and teaching the false doctrine, he don’t know what it’s all about.  That’s evidence that he really doesn’t know what it is all about.  Oh, I tell you, I’ve got so now that I just take one, a time at a time, just try one more time.  And as I said before, I just really don’t think there’s anybody in this building that stupid, after all of these many multiplicity of manifestations that’s there.  And then look folks, let me tell you about this.  Now you’re gonna have to read some.  12th Chapter of Revelations.  I’m gonna have to hurry, but what I’m trying to do, I’m not trying to do what you call preach.  Course true teaching is preaching.  Now it’s time for us to understand something, read it right down, right from the first verse.

Dr. Harris:  And the temple of Yahweh was opened in Heaven and there was seen in His temple the Ark of His Covenant and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail.  And there appeared a great wonder in Heaven.

Dr. Kinley:  And now there appeared a great wonder in Heaven.

Dr. Harris:  A woman clothed with the sun

Dr. Kinley:  A woman clothed with the sun.  Now you hold that.  A woman clothed with the sun.  Now how are you going to prove that?  John is out on the Isle of Patmos, he’s down near the end of it and he’s looking back this way, and he said there appeared a great wonder in Heaven, a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet.  You haven’t read that yet.  Now if you would just stop and think about it, now John mustn’t see nothing there in the Revelation, he just mustn’t see nothing there that ain’t back here.  Now here’s the woman…  Now here’s something else I want you all to understand, too.  When Yahweh made the man, He made him outside of the Garden of Eden.  And I want you to know that He did not take that woman outside of that man outside of the Garden of Eden.  Can’t do that.  He’s got to put him in the Garden of Eden, which is a symbol of Heaven itself, where this woman was in Heaven, she was clothed with the Son.  Well now whatever was there, it’s got to be right down here.  Oh, I’m telling you, isn’t it wonderful, with the moon under her feet.  Well now, let us look at that one.  Now here He is, or the Son and the Law represents the Moon.  This is the woman and the moon is under her feet.  They had the order, ‘don’t touch, don’t bother nothing back there.’  That’s the law.  ____ ____ ____.  There’s a wonder.  There ain’t no wonder about a carnal minded folks and people that don’t understand, and a person that don’t know.  Alright, read on.

Dr. Harris:  And upon her head a crown of twelve stars

Dr. Kinley:  Upon her head a crown of twelve stars.  Now this was in Heaven.  Now I told you there was 12 orders of angels in Heaven and there’s got to be 12 orders down here.  Now you just read that there was.  Now whatever was there, it’s just nothing else but a photostatic copy, Godhead and all right in the material realm.  Now John, he’s out there confirming what Moses saw, nothing else but that.  Alright, read on.

Dr. Harris:  And she being with child, cried

Dr. Kinley:  And she being with child,

Dr. Harris:  Cried

Dr. Kinley:  Cried

Dr. Harris:  Travailing in birth

Dr. Kinley:  Travailing in birth

Dr. Harris:  And pained to be delivered

Dr. Kinley:  And pained to be delivered ____ ____.  Now, let’s put it like this.  She’s

clothed with the Son, and she.. right while she’s within Him, she was pregnant. (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) And when she’s taken out, now you know good and well what happened.  You’ve heard about the chromosomes, genes, spermatozoa, and all likea that.  Oh, me.  Ain’t it wonderful?  Alright, read.  Now what I’m after, I want you to skip on down there where there was a war in Heaven, there’s another wonder there, that’s what I want to get after.

Dr. Harris:  And there appeared another wonder in Heaven

Dr. Kinley:  Now there’s another one, and now that gets these two wonders together, and gets it on down in the earth plane.  There appeared another wonder in Heaven.  Alright read.

Dr. Harris:  And behold a great red dragon

Dr. Kinley:  A great red dragon

Dr. Harris:  Having seven heads and ten horns

Dr. Kinley:  Having seven heads and ten horns

Dr. Harris:  And seven crowns upon his head

Dr. Kinley:  And seven crowns upon his head

Dr. Harris:  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven

Dr. Kinley:  And his tail drew the third part of the stars from heaven.  Now let’s catch up on something so that you who would, won’t think that there ain’t enough.., there ain’t but one devil, just like there’s one Messiah, there’s just one devil, the rest of ‘em are demons, or in other words, they’re his followers.  Michael and his angels that fought, and then Lucifer or the demon or the devil and his angels fought and they prevailed not, and they were cast out.  Alright, read on.

Dr. Harris:  And his tail drew the third part


Dr. Kinley:  and as the stars of heaven, and however many there are the tail drew the third part of ‘em.  Now here’s what I’m trying to get over to you.  They were cast out of heaven, cast down into the earth.  And they being spirits, ministering spirits…  You get this word, ministering spirits.  Ministering spirits.  You heard me, I said ministering spirits.  That’s the reason why there’s so many of them in the ministry.

Audience:  Right.  Yeah, that’s alright.

Dr. Kinley:  Them devils in there, they’re ministering spirits.  Yahshua the Messiah said I didn’t come to be ministered unto, but to minister.  Are you following me?  Now then, there was war in heaven and they were cast out, a third part of the stars from heaven.  Now that means this:  there’s enough devils.., I’m using this, I told you that it wasn’t but one devil, but there were enough demoniac spirits to go around.  You ain’t gonna never get to a place where they’re short of demoniac spirits.  There’s enough to go around, in fact you could have a legion.  That’s right.  The Messiah was a long ways from Adam when He come through the loins of that woman.  And He cast them demons out and they come back legions.  So we’re not never gonna get short.  Now I told you what they were:  demons.  Now let me just go head and call them devils, ministering spirits, every whicha way.  Alright, read on.

Dr. Harris:  And there was war in Heaven

Dr. Kinley:  Now there was war in there

Dr. Harris:  Michael and his angels fought against the dragon

Dr. Kinley:  Michael and his angels fought against the dragon

Dr. Harris:  And the dragon fought and his angels

Dr. Kinley:  And the dragon fought and his angels

Dr. Harris:  I’ll skip on down to the 1Oth verse.

Dr. Kinley:  Yeah, skip on down.

Dr. Harris:  And the great dragon was cast out

Dr. Kinley:  And the great dragon was cast out

Dr. Harris:  That old serpent called the devil and Satan

Dr. Kinley:  Now the devil was cast out

Dr. Harris:  Which deceiveth the whole world

Dr. Kinley:  Which deceiveth the whole world.  Now read, I wanna put this in.  I’d like.., Freddie put this ____.  The 3rd Chapter of Genesis.  Now we gonna put this together.  Alright.  Now read the…  Now you pay attention, you pay attention, cause it’ll help.  Now look at the 3rd chapter of Genesis and began to read, now hold that place there.

Dr. Harris:  Now the serpent was more subtle

Dr. Kinley:  Now the serpent…  Now wait a minute, now the serpent.  Now you’re gonna have to work this out here.  Now if I said to you, what serpent?  Then there’s somebody always figuring that it was a snake crawling along on the ground.  Well I’ll say this, if it was a snake that crawled around on the ground, he crawled around in heaven before he did on the earth.  But now here’s this serpent, here’s the parenthesis, which was cast out of heaven, see how I got that in the Genesis, said that old serpent was cast out of heaven.  Now here you’re over here in Genesis talking about the serpent.  Read it there in Genesis.

Dr. Harris:  Now the serpent

Dr. Kinley:  Now the serpent, then I’d say what serpent?  Then you say that old serpent which was cast out of heaven.  He’s the one that spoke to Eve back there, it’s the one that was cast out.  Now there’s been war down on the earth, now ever since he was cast out.  Somebody say ‘well, did you know about the First and Second World War?’  You’re wrong altogether.  The war’s been going on, ain’t never stopped, just going on all the time.  Somebody say, ‘yeah, you mean over there in Saigon and over there in Vietnam, is that what you mean?’  No.  Right in here.  Paul said the flesh was warring against the spirit.  Now that’s the war.  Now you see what was cast out of heaven, then you go ahead and write the rest of the sentence in there, that’s in Genesis.  Now I tried to put these things in the book so that you look could see, but what I’ve got to do if I put it in parenthesis, then I’ll have to put the verse here in here so that you can see where I got that from.  Now he deceived that woman, and it come all the way down.  Now the woman is a type, is figurative of the congregation because she’s the mother, that’s why Eve was called Eve.  Now I want you to listen to what I’m talking about.  Now you got a good mother over here, then you got a bad mother over here, a harlot.  And I don’t have time to tell you about that old Red Dragon because I don’t want to keep you in here over time, I just want, I just wanna make a few comments, that’s all I wanna do, just make a few comments and show you just the simplicity of it.  Now then the devil come all the way down, the woman, and as we said, now you read there in Hebrews in your lesson about them ministering spirits and he made his angels flames of fire.  And then over here in Revelations, John said if any man would.., his two witnesses would prophesy forty and two months or 1260 years clothed in sackcloth and ashes, and so if any man would try to hurt them, His two witnesses, the Law and the Prophets.  They’re the two witnesses, not Jehovah’s Witnesses.  They prophesied 1260 years, and if any would try to hurt ‘em, then fire would proceed out of their mouth and burn up their enemies.  That’s the reason why a preacher, he can’t sit here long.  You got to learn all that.  I didn’t know, I didn’t know you all knew me.  He can’t stay.  We have to make our own ministers, he can’t stay.  Now they been running out here, even this past week, trying to get with the Church of Christ, and get with this one, and get with that one, and get with the other one.  And we’ve had them ever since we’ve been around here or at least tried, and they just won’t stay here.  They can’t stand it.  And if you should happen to get one to stay, it’s just like this:  folks the harvest is past.  Now what we’re doing is going back picking up little pieces here and the pieces there and when you get through with it you won’t have nothing but a remnant or a little small bundle that’s walking around here on the face of the earth.

Now here’s what I’m saying:  if it was war in heaven, then it’s got to be war down here.  And them satanic spirits battled in heaven and then cast out and they’re incarnated or embodied in men, and that’s why the Messiah sent ‘em out.  Now here you got the devil standing up here, I don’t have time to go into that thing about Pagan Rome and Papal Rome.  And if you notice on that head, seven heads.., but he didn’t



Dr. Kinley:  in the 20th Chapter of Revelation.  Now listen to what I’m saying, upon the head was written what?

Audience:  Mystery Babylon.

Dr. Kinley:  Mystery Babylon, and then what else?

Audience:  Mother of Harlots

Dr. Kinley:  Mother of Harlots, and what else?

Audience:  Blasphemy

Dr. Kinley:  Blasphemy.  Blasphemy.  The name of blasphemy, this is the name of blasphemy.  Now translated, this, this is Latin, Vicarius Filii Dei, that’s Latin.  It means the Vicar of the Son of, of God.  Now there’s three rings in that crown.  Now Yahweh even set that planet…  Well, what one?

Audience:  Saturn.

Dr. Kinley:  Saturn, out there in the sky.  And here’s something else a lot of people don’t know.  The ancient name of Rome was Saturnia.  Then if you take that name, as we put it in the book, you take that name and bring it right down, than you got the ____.  Now Traina, that wrote this Bible, he said he doesn’t think that that applied to the Pope of Rome.  Now here’s why he said that he didn’t think that it applied to the Pope of Rome.  He said that the man of sin must come out of the house of David, just like Jesus and Judas.  You see the point?  Jesus or Yahshua was of the tribe of Judah, and so also was Jehudah, Yehudah.., that’s the first name.  Now let me show you this:  now the flesh is nailed to the cross.  There is no more such thing as a physical Jew.  Now what we’re talking about and the reason why we put it on Rome.., you can take Franklin Delano Roosevelt and add up his name and it’ll come out to 666, but he’s the wrong man.  What’s the difference?  We’re talking about world dynasty.  Satan is universal and so also is Yahweh.  Adam was the first man, on the 6th he was created.  And we go on down and Babylon has ruled the world twice.  Babel, then Babylon, that’s her second time.  Now look, she ruled the world, not this United States, that’s not what we’re talking about.  See that man standing over there on that chart way down there in the middle, we’re talking about world dynasty.  Now Vatican City or the Vatican, you have Ambassadors from every which a way down there at the Vatican and it was a world rule ecclesiastically so.  And then they didn’t stop at that, they had Church over State.  And there’s no law that can be given that means anything to them; in other words, old Satan sat down there.  And you can’t put Franklin Delano Roosevelt.., and then anybody.., why then a lot of people’s names would add up to 666, this is not Pope Paul, but the thing fits everyone of ‘em that occupies that position.  That’s Babylon, and Media, and Persia, and Grecia, and Rome, papal and pagan.  So now you’ve got to find that and put it on that devil that it belongs on.  Now the crown, the crown, that is the name of blasphemy.  Now just like.., well let me put it this way, now just like the spirit…  You all ring that bell on me.


Alright, now just like the spirit that’s in two manifestations.  Now look I told you I didn’t want to keep you over time.  Now here’s the third.  Now then here you got this: one – Vicarius, Filii – two, Dei – three.  And that was in that crown and it was set in there in rubies and diamonds.  And we raised so much cane about it, even since I’ve been in Los Angeles, Pope Paul gave his crown away, and we raised so much sand about him setting in St. Peter’s Chair, and saying that Peter’s Chair, that he set upon the throne, and set in St. Peter’s Chair.  We made ‘em, even made them.., look, we done that.  Don’t you start no arguments with me, I was planning on a visit to ‘em.  ____ wasn’t there.  They took the chair that they occupied down there, was not Peter’s.  Gave the crown away.  Now when you get married in the Roman Catholic Church, you’re burnt up, meaning this:  you couldn’t get no divorce, get some papers of separation.  Now would you please explain to me Pope Paul this evening, he said that they were going to grant annulments.  Now what the Hell is the difference between an annulment and divorce?  The devil will just say anything and do anything, he’ll tell you any kind of lie.  But if you’re married to Yahshua the Messiah, there’s not gonna be no divorce, that’s His bride.  Isn’t it wonderful?  Aren’t you really glad that you got something to be thankful for?  You running around, your mouth all poked out and sore about something all the time, you oughta be thankful.

Can I just tell you one more thing, I know it’s time to go.  They even messed up this Bible in order to get something over to you in the Vulgate.  Didn’t translate it right, and I’ll tell you what that is.  You want me to tell you?

Audience:  Yes, sir.

Dr. Kinley:  Now if you read it, be quick.  Now the 9th Chapter of Daniel and I think the 24th verse.  Now 70 weeks is determined.  I want it read out of the Holy Name Bible cause they translated it correct, but they didn’t translate it that way in the King James Version.

Reader:  70 weeks of years

Dr. Kinley:  Now, now, I want, they done rung the bell so get right down to where he was cut off.

Mary Gross:  26th verse.  And after three score and two weeks

Dr. Kinley:  And after three score and two weeks

Mary Gross:  Shall the Messiah be cut off

Dr. Kinley:  Shall the Messiah be cut off

Mary Gross:  Without a successor to follow Him

Dr. Kinley:  Without a successor.  Now here’s what I’m telling you, Peter did not succeed Yahshua the Messiah.  He didn’t have no successor.  Well, why didn’t He have a successor?  Why?  He’s gonna raise from the dead, He’s not dead, He don’t need no successor.  Now if He was dead, He’d need a successor, but He’s not dead, so He’s cut off without one, because He’s gonna raise from the dead.  Now I done gone to preaching.  Now II Timothy, I think it is 2:5.  Read that and then we’ll go.

Mary Gross:  I Timothy 2:5

Dr. Kinley:  I Timothy

Mary Gross:  For one is Yahweh

Dr. Kinley:  Now listen, for one is Yahweh.

Mary Gross:  And one is

Dr. Kinley:  Now wait a minute.  All of this that we got covered up here, all of this is One is Yahweh.  All of this is Yahweh, in incorporeal and in physical, but Yahweh is One.  Just like you got one tabernacle, we’ve been through that:  one is Yahweh.  Read.

Mary Gross:  And one mediator between Him and men

Dr. Kinley:  Now listen, one…  You get this straight.  One mediator.  A mediator means a go-between Him and men.

Mary Gross:  The Man Yahshua the Messiah

Dr. Kinley:  No Sir.  Pray to Mary.

Audience:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Pray to your Patron Saint.

Audience:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Pray as Paul said there in the 2nd Chapter of Colossians, the worshipping of angels, pray to Michael.

Audience:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Pray to Gabriel.

Audience:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Pray to Mary.

Audience:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Pray to Peter.

Audience:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Pray to Paul.

Audience:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Now then you round here trying to tell me, and as Billy Graham said Sunday, ‘go to the Church of your choice.’  It really doesn’t, it really doesn’t mean anything, you just might as well go to the church of your choice, if it’s gonna be according to your choice (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) ____ ____ your choice without a knowledge of it.


Dr. Kinley had asked Dr. Harris to read a letter dated May 19, 1971 from Dr. Alfred G. Garrette, publisher of the first edition of God, the archetype, original pattern of the universe.  His letter is in response to an IDMR invitation to the Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research 1971 International Convention.

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