Institute of Divine
Metaphysical Research®

How Can We Help?
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by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley

Los Angeles, California

recorded by Fred Allen Jr.

1 90 minute audio cassette

CATALOG #:  74.1103

transcribed by Sandra Giragosian

proofread by Susan Ameigh, Michael Rothstein, and Geraldine Rothstein

proofread and approved by International Public Relations Committee:  1996


1.  …indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.

2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.

3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley, pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, uh, see, you see, you see what I mean, isn’t that right, understand, you understand, do you understand).

4. ___ indicates an inaudible word or syllable.

5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber.

SCRIPTURE READING: I Timothy 4th chapter


Dr. Fred Allen Jr: This next lecture of Dr. Kinley was given on November the third, 1974. This lecture contains a lot of Dr. Kinley’s testimony of his life, which I feel has a lot of information that you would like to know about. The last few minutes of the lecture is missing, due to…

Dr. Kinley: First of all, as the Moderator told you that I am the Founder of the school. Forty-three years ago, in 1931, after I had preached and taught in the Church of God for 15 years, before that I was a Methodist, and before that I, I went to the Roman Catholic Church.

Fact of the matter is that all my life, even from my very earliest days of my remembrance, I always believed, or thought that there was a deity or a God, even when I was nothing but a child. But I was anxious to find and know something about Him, so I went to Sunday School, holding on to my mother’s hand, Baptist church. And I would ask mother, since everybody said that Jesus was coming, and you have a lotta people talking about that now, believing that Jesus will come. And I wondered about it, and I’d ask mother, ‘Do you think Jesus is going to be here today? If He is, I want to see Him.’ I don’t know, I just had that desire to see Him, all of my life.

And when I was older, I was.., then joined the Methodist Church. And I couldn’t get no satisfaction. And then I left there and went and joined the Holiness Church, the Church of God. And for many years, 15 years before that, I was assistant pastor in there. And they are people that believed in the Bible, chapter and verse, and very dogmatic about what they believe and teach. Well, I couldn’t see their point of view either, all the way through. But I thought it was my duty to belong to something, some church. Thought it was necessary. So, finally by and by, I always believed in speaking things that I really believed, if I didn’t believe it I just couldn’t go along with it.

Now the Church of God taught two works of grace; that if you received Jesus first, that was the main thing. I knew that was impossible, because He wasn’t in the flesh that way. That was called the first work of grace. And then you went on for an indefinite period of time, and then you received the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit. Now, that was the second work of grace. They couldn’t tell you about any days, or anything at all about it but that was the way it was. And some were teaching three works of grace. Now I never have seen that grace was a work. I thought that grace was a, an unmerited gift. So I couldn’t accept that there was a work of grace, not even certain.

By and by, with all of that humility and drive in me, I got pretty far up in Unity Holiness Church. Fact of the matter, I was on the General Council. I was nothing but a child too, very young. And everybody liked to hear me preach; and not only that, I had me a gift of what they call divine healing. And I laid my hands on people that were crippled and every other kind of thing was wrong with them, and they were healed of all kinds of disease. That was a service that we had in the church every Sunday morning. That was first, before we went into other parts of the service.

So, I said that, so that I can point out to you that with that sincerity and that desire to know, all of my life, I did not realize, I did not know a lot of things, and I realized that I didn’t. What I tried to do was to preach and teach about what was in the Bible. Now there’s some things I didn’t know, that I want to mention to you that are important for you to know, and show you how that, that you can be very easily deceived.

First, the dispensations and ages… Now, in the world today, they don’t go along with dispensations and ages. They just say, ‘The Bible says, that’s what it reads’. Anywhere we read in the Bible, that pertains to you, now that’s not so. The Ten Commandments as it is called, that’s given from Mt. Sinai, was given to the Jews only, wasn’t one Gentile in there.

Now, the Seventh Day Adventists say, ‘Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy’. And all of their teaching is predicated upon the observance of the Sabbath Day, the seventh day, Saturday. And look how many millions of people that belong to that.

The Jews were the only one or the Hebrews were the only ones that was given that first covenant. And now, primarily all of the churches, it doesn’t make any difference which one you wanna talk about, they blunder that one colossal blunder, that all of the churches make. They shouldn’t do that. Then, what was given to the Jews then, in that dispensation and in that age, was carnal ordinances. Now when we say carnal ordinances, we’re talking about water baptism, Passover suppers, which some of you have in recent times called the Lord’s supper, foot washings, and many others, natural, carnal ordinances. They were given to the Jews only.

Now the world is practicing what was given to the Jews. Roman Catholics are practicing the Mass, the Eucharist, the Lord’s Supper. That’s wrong. Now, let me say this before I move from there. It’s even wrong now for the Jews to practice it, because that was under the Old Covenant. Now some of the Church of God people said right recently, ‘No, that was not under the Old Covenant.’ Says it was given down in Egypt, and that was before the Law was given from Mt. Sinai. I’d like to inform you that you have the same deity. Just like I informed you about, that you have the same deity. You have the same one now, say the same thing.

Now all of those things, natural things, and even down to the totality of the physical universe, I’m talking about everything, everything natural, everything physical, was made as it is to point to the spiritual. The natural is definitely not the reality of it. Yahweh was manifested in the flesh in a physical body. He did not remain permanently in that physical body. So, now, since that be the case, then nothing natural, nothing physical in this age, not a thing… And every physical body must be changed. There is something wrong with everybody. Well somebody might say, ‘Well, what’s wrong with me? The doctor gave me a clean bill of health.’ Yes, but you have a physical body; and that physical body must be changed!

Now, that brings me down to say this; and I wanna be heard too. What then, is in this age? Then what is in the next age? We might put it like this. The question was asked of the apostles, the Messiah, when they was in prison. ‘What shall I do to be saved?’ Now, if you’re gonna listen at these people out in churches… They say, ‘Well, you’re a candidate for baptism, you must join some church. You must be governed and ruled by the rules and regulations of that church.’ That’s wrong. Now, I’m just putting it down practical. That’s what I’m talking about, put it down practical, that’s wrong. Now, to show you the reality of it, there’s millions of them in the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church, the Presbyterian Church, and so forth and so on. Now, they all can’t be right. Well, somebody says, ‘We all have some of the truth. You got some truths over there, and you got some truth…’ No, that’s not so either. There isn’t but just one truth. You either have it, or else you don’t. Then somebody comes along and they say, ‘Well, you got the Devil in you, and God too, or Yahweh, too.’ No, that’s not so either.

Now that brings me around to tell you, Yahweh showed me. I was caught up into Heaven itself. And what I received, I received it direct from Yahweh. And that’s the reason why this school was founded in 1931, we have preached and taught the vision and the revelation that Yahweh has given to me. I wanna tell you something about that. There hasn’t been nobody, nowhere, in no religion that’s been able to refute it. You can’t do that. And we challenged the world. We have something to go by, something definite, something positive, something concrete, something real, something irrefutable, something undeniable to go by. We know what we’re talking about and what we’re doing. And Yahweh didn’t just leave it like that either, for somebody to get up and say, ‘we should all say the same thing.’ I just got through saying that if you’re going to listen at them fellows… And if that were so, then they would all be together. So, you know they can’t be all, you know they’re not all together, so they’re not all preaching and teaching the same thing.

And I wanna say right here, I wanna repeat this. Now, if I were teaching the same thing they’re teaching out there, any of them I’m talking about, then I too would be wrong. I’m not teaching anything that the world out there, I’m not teaching what the world out there teaches, in none of the churches. I don’t care what church it is, a Jehovah’s Witness, or none of them, I’m not teaching no parts of none of that. I tell you, they don’t know what they’re talking about. And I say they can’t prove what they’re talking about. We can. We can prove it. And there’s no salvation in none of that out there.

Now we had a scripture that’s been read this morning. I want you to look at that 1st verse, this is Paul talking to Timothy. Please read, and read fast. I wanna get down, and get somebody else, a dean, or somebody to just preach. And we want somebody up here that’s gonna tell you something about this thing. I just might as well be honest with you this morning. We, we, we, we want, we want you to be benefitted this morning and we’re very careful about what we are saying and we do possess the ability to prove it to you. And nobody can overcome it. Now, they’ve been trying it. Now I want you to know that, too. Read.

Dr. Harris: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly…1

Dr. Kinley: Now, it didn’t say that the man said it. This is Paul’s letter to Timothy. He didn’t say, ‘Now, look, I’m speaking in person.’ He didn’t say that. He said, ‘Now the Spirit speaketh expressedly…’ Read.

Dr. Harris: that in the latter times…

Dr. Kinley: Now that’s the reason why I had that read, because it’s right down here where you are. Right down here where you are, in this present age. Yahshua, the Messiah, spoke of it in the 24th chapter of Matthew, the 21st chapter of Luke, and the 13th chapter of Mark. And it’s worse now than it’s ever been in the history of the world. And for your information, I don’t think some of you know it, the Roman Catholics number is up over 550 million. They believe that 1975, which is but a very few days from now, the end of the world will come and Jesus will come down through the sky. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the same thing; and they’re preaching and teaching that 1975 will be the end of the world. The Church of God is teaching the same thing; 1975 will be the end of the world.


1 I Timothy 4:1

Now, if you look back at the first age, 1656,


we’re at this age have already overrun that one, the first age, I’m talking about from Adam to the Flood. That’s only 1656 years. And now you’re 1900 years, in this age, in this one, present age. So it’s got to end. I don’t say 1975, but the Spirit is speaking expressly, before the age can end. Here you are, with all this erroneous doctrine out here, the Spirit’s speaking expressly of it, in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith. Doing what? Giving heed to seducing spirits… Every one of them damnable angels that were cast out of heaven, that you read about in the 12th chapter of Revelations, is preaching and teaching an erroneous doctrine. They are men, they are spirits incarnated in a physical body and preaching all this junk and stuff that you got going on in the world that makes up the Spirit speaketh expressly in the latter days warning you about it. Do you understand what I mean?

Just in one year alone, the Roman Catholic Church lost 40 million people. And there’s a whole lot more, I mean from the Pope on down, that don’t believe a thing about what they teach. They know better. They know that Jesus Christ never left him to build no church on Peter. They know better than that. But people just hanging on to these traditions and customs. Well, we don’t.

The Spirit speaketh expressive that in the latter time, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Roman Catholics, and Baptists, and Methodists, and what not. Now could I speak any plainer than that? …giving heed to the Pharisees, and the Scribes, and the Sadducees, and the what have you, and the Nazarenes, and the Nicolaitanes, and so forth and so on.

What are they doing there Doc?

Dr. Harris: …giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of demons;

Dr. Kinley: Now that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about a damnable or a doctrine of a demon, a.., the father called them damnable heresies. Doctrines of demons… Doctrines! I’m talking about the doctrine, the doctrine in the Roman Catholic Church is wrong. If you don’t know what’s the matter with it, the doctrine is wrong! If you don’t know what’s the matter with the Baptist Church, the doctrine is wrong! That’s what’s wrong with all of them. The doctrine is wrong. And they’re giving heed to erroneous doctrines that are taught. I just got through telling you about one.

Why would you go back here? To carnal ordinances was given to Israel. The book says so! Was not given to the Gentiles! And they bring up something like that and then pin it down on you here in this dispensation and age, something natural, something physical. And then got the nerve to say that Jesus said for us to do this too. No such of a thing.

Now I’ll, I’ll just open your eyes to something here. This Passover, this, down in Egypt, was given to the Hebrews. Now listen to what I am saying. It was given by Yahweh. There wasn’t one Gentile in it. Now, this is the first one. Now, if there wasn’t one in the first one, there can’t be one in the last one. Now, if you are wise enough to see that Yahweh is making that covenant with the seed of Jacob, or the Israelites, no Gentiles… Now, if you look at the last one, 26th chapter of Matthew… I, I don’t want you to do a whole lot of reading. I’m just telling you a lot of things. You’ll find that Yahshua took His disciples, and He ate in the upper room, and everyone of His disciples, all twelve of ‘em, was every last one were Jews, and not a Gentile is even invited to it! Never has been in the history of the world. Now that does completely away with that.

I wanna tell you something else about that same thing. They ate that in their own home, in their, in their house. They did not eat it up in the congregation of the assembly, like they’re doing it in the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant churches. You wanna argue about it? Never was done that way in the history of the world, by those it was given to. You wasn’t even invited to the party. Now I’ve said things like this, and people have challenged me on it. Preachers who go to different churches challenged me on it. And, I want you to know they have. They’re smart as us; but they had to go down. That’s right.

Now I’ll tell you what you can’t do. You can’t take your Bible… I’m showing these erroneous things that you’ve been taught all your life, and blundering and stumbling around over, that the Spirit is telling you about. You can’t take your Bible, and listen, I’m not particular about where you read either, from Genesis on to Revelations; you can’t take your Bible and show us Yahweh, which is real, Elohim, or Yahshua, the Father, the Word or Son, the Holy Spirit, Lord, God, Jesus Christ, Jehovah, or Allah, or Baal – I think I almost covered the waterfront there. Everything.., anything in your Bible, or in the history of the ages, where a Gentile should be baptized in physical water as an ordinance. It’s not in your Bible. If you think it is, I would like for you to read it right now, or tell me where to read it. Just hold up your hand. I said it wasn’t in there.

Now somebody at this ditch, when I make a statement like that, they might wanna tell me about what Peter said down over there in the 1Oth chapter of the Acts of Apostles. See now with a mind like that, it’s easy to get you all messed up. You don’t, you don’t pay attention to what is said. I said the Lord, God, and Jesus Christ, and Yahweh, and then you tell me about what Peter said. Peter said a whole lot of things he had to take back. I could read them to you out of the book. Well, one thing he said, when Yahshua was coming down from the Mt. of Transfiguration, he said, ‘No death will you die.’ But He did. And Yahweh, Yahshua said then, ‘Get thee behind me Satan. Thou savor not the things of Yahweh.’2 He said that.


2 Matthew 16:23

Now, let me go on with the story, so you can understand what I’m talking about. Just wanted to point those things out to you and just show you. You can’t take your Bible and show nowhere in it, where a Gentile is supposed to be baptized in physical water. It’s not in it. You can’t show where he’s supposed to eat the Lord’s Supper, or the Feast of the Passover. It’s not in the Bible. You can’t show where he’s supposed to have his feet washed. It’s not in the Bible. Now, if you think it is… Now, you got a break this morning. You can have the pulpit, I’ll give it to you. And I just got through telling you, if I was teaching the same thing they were teaching out there, I would be wrong, too. I’m telling you that that Old Covenant was given to the gentiles or given to the Jews. Now look folks, 430 years before Yahweh spoke from Mt. Sinai, He made a promise to Abraham, that in his seed He would bless all the families of the earth. And that seed is this, Yahshua, the Messiah.

Now the works of grace: He came in and He did all of the works here. Said, ‘I will work a work in your day, ye shall not believe though a man declare it unto you.’ That’s the 1st chapter of Habakkuk. He did the work. That’s the reason why I ain’t gonna buy, I ain’t gonna buy no grace as being a work. Grace is not a work. Grace is an unmerited favor. You can’t merit salvation by something you do, other than believe on Yahshua the Messiah. That’s what you’re supposed to do. I’m telling you what the Bible teaches.

Now listen, Romans 10:17. I want you to see this. Now, I want you to see this. I want you to understand this. See, it’s Yahweh’s responsibility… Listen folks, at what I’m saying. It’s Yahweh’s responsibility to send somebody to you to preach, to teach the truth. And there’s a many an erroneous doctrine that’s being taught in the world, nevertheless there is… that, that doctrine of Yahweh is there in the world. Read.

Dr. Harris: So then faith cometh by hearing…

Dr. Kinley: Now then, faith, I want you to see what I’m talking about. Faith comes by hearing. Now, if you never heard what I just told you… See? You follow? Faith then comes by hearing, you’ve got to hear it. Possibilities are you never heard nobody say nothing like that. But faith comes by hearing. Read.

Dr. Harris: And that by the Word of Yahweh.

Dr. Kinley: And that by the Word of Yahweh. Read on.

Dr. Harris: But I say, Have they not heard?

Dr. Kinley: But I say, Have they not heard?

Dr. Harris: Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth…

Dr. Kinley: Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth and everywhere. Read on.

Dr. Harris: and their words unto the ends of the world.

Dr. Kinley: and their words unto the ends of the world. Read.

Dr. Harris: But I say, did not Israel know?

Dr. Kinley: But did not Israel know? Israel know. All right, read.

Dr. Harris: First Moses said,

Dr. Kinley: First Moses said,

Dr. Harris: I will provoke you to jealousy

Dr. Kinley: I will provoke you to jealousy

Dr. Harris: by them that are no people,

Dr. Kinley: by the Gentiles! Now I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people or the Gentiles. Read on.

Dr. Harris: and by an unenlightened nation I will anger you.

Dr. Kinley: and by an unenlightened… See, the Gentiles they were not enlightened. Now I want you to understand what we’re talking about when we say that: the Law wasn’t given to him, he was unenlightened, and for the most part, they’re still yet unenlightened. Unenlightened… Read on.

Dr. Harris: But Isaiah is very bold,

Dr. Kinley: But Isaiah is very bold,

Dr. Harris: and saith,

Dr. Kinley: and saith,

Dr. Harris: I was found by them that sought Me not;

Dr. Kinley: I was found by them, the Gentiles, that sought Me not. Read on, please.

Dr. Harris: I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me.

Dr. Kinley: Now hold what you just have there, and go to Timothy. I think it’s 3:16, ‘For without controversy great is the mystery…’3

Dr. Harris: And without controversy, great is the mystery of Yahweh


3 I Timothy 3:16

Dr. Kinley: Now, you’re talking about the Gentiles there, where we just was reading at in Romans. He was found by them that didn’t seek Him. All right, read on.

Dr. Harris: Yahweh was manifest in the flesh,

Dr. Kinley: Now listen, listen here. Now you just might as well start out to understand this this morning. Yahweh, that’s all the deity that there is anywhere, was manifested in Yahshua the Messiah, whom the folks call Jesus Christ. Yahweh is the Father. Now, the way the world has got it, the Father here is one, the Son is here is two, and the Holy Ghost is over here is three. Three distinctive individual personalities. That is not so. Hold what you’ve got and read Deuteronomy 4 and 6, or 6:4.

Dr. Harris: Hear, O Israel:

Dr. Kinley: Now listen. He’s telling you, now He’s gonna tell you something, and He’s expecting you to hear. Somebody say, ‘Well, I ain’t going to hear.’ Well, you’re just gonna be lost. Hear, O Israel:

Dr. Harris: Yahweh, our Elohim

Dr. Kinley: Yahweh, our Elohim

Dr. Harris: is Yahweh, a unity.

Dr. Kinley: is Yahweh, not three distinctive individual personalities. You understand plain English, don’t you? He’s Yahweh a unity, not a trinity. See that now? And Israel was told to hear it. Now, go right back to where you was reading there in Timothy.

Dr. Harris: And without controversy…

Dr. Kinley: Now listen, ain’t no need in no debate about it. We don’t care to debate the issue. Without any controversy… Read.

Dr. Harris: great is the mystery of Yahweh…

Dr. Kinley: Now, it’s a great big mystery… You can’t expect every Tom, Dick, and Harry to understand it. That’s the reason why they got all these denominations and sects and cults in the world. Great is the mystery of Yahweh. Read on.

Dr. Harris: Yahweh was manifest in the flesh,

Dr. Kinley: Yahweh or the Father was manifested in the flesh, or in His son, Yahshua the Messiah. Now that’s all there was. Wasn’t no other deity beside Him. And you’re talking about God; and Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was God’s chief representative on earth. Now, that’s a lie, that ain’t so. Yahweh was manifested in the flesh. Yahweh was manifested in Yahshua. Don’t forget it wasn’t why we had you to come over here, said He was manifested or made known to them that was no people, the Gentiles. Now, I, I went through this to show you when and where. All right, read.

Dr. Harris: Justified in the Spirit,

Dr. Kinley: Justified in the Spirit,

Dr. Harris: seen of angels,

Dr. Kinley: seen of angels,

Dr. Harris: preached unto the Gentiles,

Dr. Kinley: Now you see ____ ____ ____ everybody? Preached unto the Gentiles… Oh, I tell you, it’s wonderful. Is that right?

Student Body: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: He was found of them that wasn’t seeking Him, so He preached to the Gentiles. Yahweh manifested in that physical body. Yes, He did. And He was found.., they wasn’t looking for it, but they was.., He was found of them that wasn’t seeking Him. All right, read on.

Dr. Harris: believed on in the world,

Dr. Kinley: Now listen, He was believed on in the world. Now listen at me, what I’m gonna say. Nicodemus… Nicodemus was one of the 70 of the Sanhedrin Council, that went down to Yahshua’s house by night. And now here these 70 elders here, now he was one of the 70 over, over there, that’s come down from that 70 that, in the 24th chapter of Exodus. They was the leaders and the chief of Israel. Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews. And he went down to Yahshua’s house by night. Now listen to what he said to Him, this is the 3rd chapter of John. He said, ‘Master, we know…’ We who? All 70 of us hypocrites. We know, even though we have been out there challenging you to debates and all, trying to make a fool out of you; ‘we know that you’re a teacher come from Yahweh.’ How do you know that? ‘Because no man can do the miracles which you do, except Yahweh be right with you.’ Now before, ____ since Yahweh being up there in the sky, He’s down here, that wasn’t what they say. Yahweh was right with Him. And how they knew it, was no man could do the miracles which they had, that which He had done. Well, what did He do? What kind of miracle did He perform? Healed the sick, raised the dead, walked on water, stilled the oceans and the sea, the wind and the waves. No man could do nothing like that, except Yahweh be right with him.

Now you know the reason why I said that? For your information, that’s what we have been doing in this school. And we have letters of authority and records to testify of them, and people setting right in this audience that have been healed of all kinds of diseases. Now, how about that. Now, if that be the case, you know I can’t do it, I can’t even heal my ownself. That’s why the Messiah said, ‘I can of my ownself do nothing. My Father in Me, He doeth the works.’ I haven’t never healed nobody, but they’ve been healed. Yes, indeed, right where Dr. King is setting there, right here now, there’s a woman in a wheelchair sitting right here in the front row. And all back in Ohio…

Just a, just a, just a couple of weeks ago. I’m out here in Los Angeles and that’s way back there in Ohio. The doctors cussed me out at a Roman Catholic hospital, because the, the baby, my grandson’s baby, he had swallowed a french fry, it lodged in his throat, and he called me on the phone and asked me about it. And he told the doctor he couldn’t operate on him until he called me, he couldn’t do anything like that. And I told him, ‘Take the baby by the heels and just shake him like that.’ He said, ‘well the doctor said,’ they got really hot about it. He said that’s an old method. He said, ‘We don’t do it that way no more.’ Roman Catholic.

Now he’s not.., I’ll tell you something else. Right in that hospital, he didn’t know that we had taken a man from there out of that hospital, with a broken pelvis and bones every kinda way, and ain’t never been in no cast. He was right in front of the audience. Is that right, Dr. Harris?

Student Body: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: Here’s a man, his esophagus, and here’s a tumor on his esophagus, can’t swallow. Right in his own hospital, they sent him from there to the Cleveland Clinic. Now, how do you do that? Can you ask your pastor how it’s done?

Well, the doctor said, ‘Well, we, we don’t do it that way no more. We operate on ‘em.’ And they was making preparations to operate, and so Donny just put the man on the phone, put the doctor on the phone. He talked to me. He said, ‘If the President of the United States were to tell me to pick the child up by the heels and turn it up and down and shake it like that,’ he said, ‘I would tell him to go to Hell.’ That’s what he said when he talked to me. That’s just as good as telling me to go to Hell.

And so I said to him, ‘Listen here, Doc,’ I said, ‘now I am not an M. D., medical doctor, I’m called a metaphysician, not a medical doctor. And all I’m interested in is in the child’s recovery, saving the child’s life.’

He said, ‘Well, that’s all I’m interested in too, but we have a better method than that now.’

I said, ‘Well then, if you know what the thing is all about, now you just proceed, go right on.’

He said, ‘You want your grandson back on the phone?’ He put him back on the phone.

Now I told Donny, I said, ‘I told the doctor to go ahead on and to do whatever he thought was best.’ And so they went on, I been telling you what they thought was best, and the child throwed up every bit of it. Then Donny turned right around, called me up and told me that it was all over. Do you see what I mean?

Student Body: LAUGHTER

Dr. Kinley: Now, things like that have been going on for many years. Now, I oughta tell you about this. Now, for many years, Sister Harris…? She’s here somewhere.

Sister Harris: Here.

Dr. Kinley: There she is. Sister Farley?

Sister Farley: Yes?

Dr. Kinley: Those are people that, that knowed me back in Ohio, and been knowing me for years. They used to have a habit. Come on Doc, what’s happening, to know what’s going on around the world, you know. Now somebody say, ‘Well, such and so forth and so on…’ about the Second World War. Dr. Gross, you was there. Didn’t I tell you everything when the war was gonna break out, and everybody that was gonna be involved in it, and when it was going to be started, and then when it was gonna be over with. Didn’t I tell you all that on a Thursday night?

Dr. Gross: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: So you can just start here… Did I do that?

Dr. Gross: You did.

Dr. Kinley: Dr. Allen, Sr., hold your hand up. When a White House, note come from the White House, we worked at Wright Aeronautical, said they were to shut the whole shop down. No further word. The treaties were being signed. It’s peace. Said it would be announced by Truman from the White House, over the public address system in the shop, coming today. Just shut the whole thing down, and everybody sit down and wait on the news. And that man… Stand up, Dr. Allen, I want them to see you, I want ‘em to look at a good big liar.

Student Body: LAUGHTER

Dr. Kinley: Now, he was out there; he had charge of the waterworks. And he come to me, he said, up in my office and he said, ‘Doc, is it over today?’

I said, ‘No sir. It won’t be over today. They just might as well go on back to work.’ Am I lying? Did it happen that day?

Dr. Fred Allen Sr: Just like you said.

Dr. Kinley: I, didn’t happen. Now you go get the history books, and look up passages. Now here’s what I’m talking to you about, and here’s why I brought them things up. I know Yahweh has shown me the purpose and the plan, and I don’t make mistakes like that, and I’m not up here guessing. Whenever I tell you something, that’s the way it is, ain’t gonna be no fix. I don’t care if you’re an angel drop down from Heaven or, come direct out of Hell, and it’s gonna be just like I said it is, because it’s not me that’s doing the preaching and the teaching. I don’t know nothing. I’m the champion of the idiots, but our Father does, and I have to tell you the truth about it. sometimes it hurts, to have to get up there and say things to people cause I know good and well that most of them ain’t going to do what you tell ‘em, ain’t gonna do what Yahweh says, they don’t care who said it. I know, I know that’s the way it is. Somebody’s gonna get up and walk on over, ‘I’m going on back to my church; I don’t care what that man says.’ Talking about that man. And I’ll tell you one thing, that somebody walk down the stairs and explaining it another different way saying, ‘He don’t mean it like this.’ Like I didn’t have sense enough to say what I mean and mean what I say. Yahweh doesn’t have sense enough to say what He means and means what He says.

Now, what we’re talking about is this. Now, all of the carnal ordinances, right straight on, from Adam on down… Adam was given an ordinance out there not to eat of the fruit of that tree, and the Law was added because of that transgression. That’s what the book says. Then listen here. Not just a few folks, but all have sinned and come short of the glory of Yahweh, all, everybody, so no flesh has no justification in boasting, ____, nobody. Now, if you want that read, I’ll read it to you. That’s the 5th chapter of Romans, all have sinned and come short.

Now, look folks, and listen at what I’m talking about, because I’m, I’m trying to get down now, but I’m trying to set you wise, and trying to tell you what’s what’s going on, what’s happening. Now, we showed you that He was found of the Gentiles. It’s a great mystery. Two fundamentals of the mystery, now listen at what I’m saying, the mystery of Yahweh, 2nd Thessalonians the 2nd chapter, you will find there the Mystery of Iniquity, and Paul said, in his days, even in apostolic times, it was working then. And it has been working before he said that. It had been working from right here right on down from the Garden of Eden right straight on down through the ages. It still yet works.

Now, I said that so I could say this to you. I want you to hear me. Now, the first covenant, back here, not in the desert, this was not the first covenant. This was the first covenant that was given to the Jews, or the Hebrews, that’s not the first. There was a Abrahamic Covenant before then. There was a Noahic Covenant before then. There was an Edenic Covenant before these; in other words, there are 7 fundamental covenants. Now, but this first covenant, all of it’s in the natural, and notice now, back there in the Garden of Eden, he was eating of the natural fruit on physical trees. He was a physical man in the flesh. And that garden was in fruition when he was placed in it. Now listen, he took everything natural, this thing is physical; he had a natural wife; so the fruit of those trees that he was eating of was symbolical and typical of the fruits of the spirit. Then, everything that was given in the Law, naturally so, just like here, naturally so, was a schoolmaster to bring us up to Yahshua the Messiah. I mean, and I don’t mean now that man walked around in the flesh, but as a quickening spirit. Now listen, so now then there’s nothing natural that you can do, nothing. Yahweh never asked any of that of the Gentiles… All of the carnal ordinances… Read it, Dr. Harris, in Hebrews 9, 10 and 17. Now listen at what it says. Now listen, listen, giving it to you straight now, straight to it now, and you can’t fix it. Now, I said in Hebrews, that’s where he’s gonna read. All right, read.

Dr. Harris: Then verily the first covenant had also ordinance…4

Dr. Kinley: That’s the 1st chapter, I mean that’s the, that’s the 1st verse. Is that right? Then verily the first covenant that was given to the Hebrews. All right. And what?

Dr. Harris: and ordinances of divine service

Dr. Kinley: and ordinances of a divine service

Dr. Harris: and a worldly sanctuary.

Dr. Kinley: and a worldly, or a physical, or a natural, sanctuary. All right, read on.

Dr. Harris: 9th verse

Dr. Kinley: 9th verse

Dr. Harris: Which was a figure for the time then present,

Dr. Kinley: Now listen here. That’s a figure for the time then present. What is it a figure of? 8:5, read. I want you to, I want you to see we do know what we’re talking about. We can put you on the right track down here. Preacher say, ‘Come on, give me your hand and let’s start and go to Heaven. I don’t know what’s there; but come on, let’s go on and see what the end’s gonna be.’ Well, he ought to know better than that.

Now, this Tabernacle was a figure of the time then present, it’s a figure. A figure of what? Read!

Dr. Harris: 5th verse of 8th chapter.

Dr. Kinley: 5th verse of the 8th chapter of Hebrews.

Dr. Harris: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,

Dr. Kinley: That’s a reflection of heaven itself! Now, that’s the first ____. When he saw these angels around the interior of that sanctuary, the angels in heaven… Do you understand? And you know that this is a figure of heaven and heavenly things. And you will leave, ‘Come on, and go and see what the end’s gonna be like.’ All you got to do is look, for that’s what it was, a figure of heaven. All right.


4 Hebrews 9:1

Dr. Harris: as Moses was admonished of Yahweh

Dr. Kinley: as Moses was admonished of Yahweh

Dr. Harris: when he was about to make the Tabernacle:

Dr. Kinley: when he was about to make the Tabernacle:

Dr. Harris: for, see, saith He,

Dr. Kinley: for, see, saith Yahweh,

Dr. Harris: that thou make all things according to the pattern

Dr. Kinley: Now listen, you’re gonna have to stop this foolishness around here, and go on back and make everything according to the pattern. Stop your foolishness. Because Yahweh is the pattern! Now, when you say the pattern… Let me tell you what I’m talking about. Now here’s the Tabernacle: had a Court Around About, had a Most Holy Place, a Holy Place, and an Outer Court or a Court Around About. You can’t take this golden candlestick and set it over on this side, or change this furniture around in this place. You can’t change it around. Why not? Because it’s a figure of your body. Because your body is a temple of it. Your heart belongs where it is. Your bladder and so forth, your interior, intestines and what not, belong right here. You can’t do no fixing and you can’t move nothing around, ‘I think it looks better over here.’ No, that’s what reverend is doing out here, because he don’t know a thing about the pattern. Now this pattern is a figure of Yahweh, a figure of a man. Now look, now we’ve got blood out here on the altar of sacrifice. And next to that you come here to the laver, there’s water in there for washing. And next the holy anointing oil, because the priest ate in the sanctuary and till he had anointing oil. Nobody can’t do nothing in no church; there ain’t no foundation without the Holy Spirit. Be anointed with the Holy Spirit, he can’t do nothing like that. Now somebody’s gonna have the Holy Spirit.

Now look, I’m setting these things where they belong. This is the gate. You remember Yahshua says enter in at the strait gate, for straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and the few there be that find it.5 Is that what He said? Now you come in to this gate. Now you take come inside the people look at it, and they got this Tabernacle just set off to the side, the tent just set off to the side, and this laver was set over here. That’s wrong, cause it’s a strait gate. What do you mean strait? Right straight on into the Most Holy Place or into heaven itself. Straight… I am the way, the truth and the life. No one goes unto the Father but by Me, Yahweh but by Yahshua, the Messiah, no man.

Pope says, ‘No, that ain’t right, we need some indulgence, credit. It requires credit. Then when you have to die, you won’t have enough indulgence or enough credit to get you into heaven, you borrow some from Mary or Peter or somebody up there.’

And Peter said, if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the sinner, and the unrighteous, appear?6 In other words, he just got by by the skin of his teeth. Ain’t no man gonna go to the Father. I’m not talking about the Holy, so-called Holy Father sitting over there in Rome, either. I’m talking about Yahweh.

Now this took up a whole lot of time here, but I’m trying to get, I’m trying to get down to business with you. And I haven’t brought out the point that I wanted to bring out here, Now, what I want to bring out, and what I want to stress, do you see how these vessels are set here?

Dr. Fred Allen, Jr.: The original tape, which this tape was made from, stopped at this point. I recorded the lecture for the information that was contained in it. I do hope and trust that you did enjoy the lecture.


5 Matthew 7:13, 14.

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