Institute of Divine
Metaphysical Research®

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recording received from Robert Fenti and Lamar Greed

Catalog#: 66 H


transcribed and proofread by the Green Bay, Wisconsin and Albuquerque, New Mexico Branch Schools

proofread by the International Public Relations Committee

approved by the International Public Relations Committee: 1997

NOTE:  This edition is a duplication (word for word, line for line, page for page) of the original transcript recently approved by the International Public Relations Committee, except for the following.  Please note that the International Public Relations Committee and the original transcribers concurred with the following changes:

1. The date on the original transcript was 1974.  Since there was no date on the original recording, this edition is using 1966 for the following reasons:  a) Dr. Kinley refers to Bishop Pike currently being on the carpet.  That occurred in 1966.  b) He also states that he and the school are 35 years old.  1931 + 35 = 1966.  c) Dr. Kinley uses God and Christ, rather than Yahweh, Elohim and Yahshua.  1966 is therefore being used.

2. Headers for each page are incorporated herein.  The headers include a different title placed on the same session by a different recorder.

3. The last several sentences, which have been proofread and approved, at the end were added, showing the conclusion to the session.  These were found on a different recording of the same session.

4. The transcribing and proofreading information above has been added.

Dr. Kinley:  —————-.  First of all I want to say that, I know that you have enjoyed the two previous speakers, I know that you have.  It is hard, sure-nuf hard to get up here and to express yourself within the comprehension and understanding of everybody.  And one of the reasons for that is because we have been taught so many different things about the same thing.  And we did not know how to go about proving one thing or the other.  And the consequences were that a lot of doctrine come out of almost anything they said up here — a lot of doctrines.

I don’t know whether you noticed it or not, on the TV tonight Bishop Pike was on there.  And he is up before the.., uh, he’s on the carpet, (let’s put it like that) for erroneous teachings and what-not.  They got him on, on trial, they bringing him up before the Bishop, about the Birth and so forth and so on, and his teaching contrary to what the Church of England taught.  I don’t know whether you noticed it or not, but it was on there.  Now I have here the little piece of paper here that’s cut out of the “Los Angeles Examiner.”  That Dr.., uh, the “Los Angeles Times,” pardon me for the error, “Los Angeles Times.”  It is dated 10/26 I believe it is.  Uh, I wanna tell you before I tell you anything about this.  Now don’t you get excited I’m not gone keep you over time.  Now let your temperature go down.  But I do want to tell you about this, see I wanna tell you about it.  I’d like for Dr. Harris to get up here and read it, and you listen while he read.

Dr. Harris:  “Miner’s will call for proof of human soul.”  About 18 days will be set aside next year and this is to prove scientifically the existence of the human soul.  To the organization which can do this, and at least eight will try, the prize is more than two hundred thousand dollars [$200,000].

The money was left by James Kid, an Arizonian miner, who died in 1951.  Kid’s will says his estate will go to any person or group furnishing some signs of proof of the soul of the human body which leaves at death.  Attorneys believe the money also could be awarded to anyone who is merely researching the existence of souls.  Superior Court Judge, Robert L. Myra said a hearing, expected to last eight days, is to begin next March the 6th.  Kid, a bachelor, says in his will, he has no heirs.

Seeking to qualify for the money are:  The California Parapsychology Foundation Incorporated, The Arizona Board of Regents, The Arizona Foundation for Neurology and Psychiatry, Parapsychology Foundation Incorporated, The University of Life’s Church, Inc., Neurological Sciences Foundation, Physical Research Foundation Incorporated, and The Aquarium Foundation.

Dr. Kinley: Thank you very much.  Now you see that?  Now this.., after all these many years, see after all these many years, why then they’re still not too sure about it.  Now Bishop Short said, (I let him read that), and he said for me to give that back to him, and he is going to write them folks.

Now, I said all that — I wanted you to know all that, you see, so that you could see this one thing about this teaching.  There is no way on earth to prove it other than the way that we go about it.  ________.  You either do it this way or else!  You see what I mean?  Now nobody can’t come along and boast two hundred thousand dollars, and you see that’s from 1951 down to this present time, see to try to find somebody up under all these smart folks, and Institutions,_you see, and these Church organizations, Roman Catholics, and Protestants and what have you, Jews and everything else, you understand.  And then they up there all this time and nobody’s able to prove nothing about it.  You see the point now that I’m talking about?  That don’t make sense — did it?  Now the reason why they can’t prove it is because see, they don’t know how to go about to do it.  See, you get it now?  And Bishop Pike is on trial you understand, because the things that he says is out of harmony with what the teaching was of the Anglican Church.  Get the point?  Contrary to what the rest of ‘em believed and taught.

Now here I come, you see, now I’m against the whole entire thing.  Get the point, see?  In other words I have challenged the world.  And I say this to you.., and now some of you know this because you have been around me long enough to know – I didn’t say need it, I said, know it.  I’m not talking about having no faith in it either!  See I’m talking about a, I’m talking about a profound knowledge too know, see, that it’s this way or none at all, see.  Isn’t anybody on earth can whip this organization.  That’s right — living or dead.  Now I didn’t say that to be boasting, I just said it because it’s so!  How’s that, how’d I do that time?  See, you get the point?

Now, I tried my best to tell these folks what my mission was.  And I don’t think I’ve done to good a job, so I’ll try one more time, see.  I was sent in this closing of this age, just like Noah was sent in the closing of the antediluvian.  You understand?

And just like Messiah was sent there in the closing of that one.  Then the age that’s closing now, I was sent, see.  Now here’s my job, now here is my job, and I want you to understand it.  My job is NOT DISAGREEING with what Moses and them have said back here, you see, what Messiah and them have done, you understand and what John on the Isle of Patmos is done — see, disagreeing with ‘em.  Now this is what my job is.  My job is taking all that Moses and John and everybody else in between there said and done and and proving it is so.  Now that’s what my job is!  You see?  That’s what, that’s that’s what I come for.  Get it?  That’s the way it is.  Now listen, let me tell you something.  It’s not gone do anybody any good.  Now those that uh.., Roger, I’m 35 years old.  You understand?  And nobody from nowhere at no time during this 35 years (and I told you I’ve been in the colleges, academies, and everywhere else) you understand — believe it or not!  You see?  I made a statement Sunday like this:  I said “I have been everywhere, seen everybody, know everything, know everybody, been every place, heaven, earth, hell and every where else.”  You understand?  You understand?  Now that might have sounded, you know, like that wasn’t so, but it is!  Somebody said, “Well have you been over to Jerusalem or have you been over yonder and so forth and so on?”  No, not in bodily presence, but I’ve been there.  See what I’m talking about?  No this body has never been there you understand, in bodily presence, but I been there!  There isn’t anywhere I haven’t been – I been to heaven!  Somebody’s always saying, “Show me somebody that come from heaven, you understand.  Ain’t nobody never been to heaven and got back to tell nobody nothing.”  I did, see — you can ask me.  See I wouldn’t have much trouble convincing somebody that I been to hell.  You see what I’m talking about? —————–, see they won’t argue with that, but when you come to talking about being in heaven —————- well now he done, he got clear out’a (outta?) bounds there.  See the point.  Now here’s a fellow that is spoken of in your Bible Here’s the fellow that said that he knew a fellow about 14 years ago, (you understand), that’s laying right down on the ground — not standing up but laying down on the ground, and was on into the 3rd heaven.  You understand, get the point?  Now he said he knew that fellow.  So I say to you, I know a fellow..

Now let me see if I can speak in this type of tongue to you.  See, now you have to die to go to heaven.  Well now I don’t mean being hauled off out there to the cemetery, now I don’t mean that.  I mean that the depraved nature and disposition, the carnal function, see of a carnal mind, it has to be transformed, it has to be changed, it has to be elevated by the Holy Spirit itself to another plain of thinking, another state of consciousness where you don’t think on this plane here, you think on a heavenly plane.  You understand, you get it, you get the point?  Now you don’t go to the cemetery to do that!  You can’t think nothing in the cemetery!  Get the point?  So now you have to think like that before you go to the cemetery!  See, get the point?  Now that means this, that you have to start to thinking now!  You see, see, you understand?  Cause you can’t think dead like you’re talking about and going to the cemetery, and yet you have to die.  You get the point?  Now I said that to say this:  Though your physical body be on earth and you’re walking around on earth, (and don’t you start no argument with me, see), though your physical body be walking around here on earth — your state of consciousness while you’re walking around on earth has either got to be dead.. And in that state of death.., if you looked in Revelations you’ll find that death and the grave.., and this body that you have is the grave in which you are in.  If you are alive or been transformed or changed while you’re walking around in this body, then you are already in heaven.  Now you want some proof for that don’t you?  You want some Bible proof!  You see, Colossians, Colossians.  Now that’s the reason why I tell you, you understand?  I have been there!  In fact of the matter I live there — I don’t live here!  You understand?  You get it?  Now look!  The apostle is telling you this:  “That he was crucified with Christ.”  I’m trying to tell you in terms so you can check it up in your Book.  “Nevertheless I live, yet not I, but the life which I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.”  Listen, I want you to read the 3rd chapter of Colossians, and I want you to begin with the 15th verse.  It’s no wonder people don’t understand this Bible.  See with you and your carnal mind, you don’t know nothing about what these apostles are talking about.  And you’re bound to have all this friction, and all that Bishop Short, uh, Bishop Pike and Bishop this, and Bishop that, and Bishop the other — you’re bound to have all this friction!  See?  You don’t have no way to prove nothing.  You understand what I’m talking about?  Alright read.

Reader:  And let the peace of God …

Dr. Kinley:  3rd chapter of Colossians and verse one.

Reader:  If you then be risen with Christ…

Dr. Kinley:  Now if, if you’re crucified with Him, see and you are buried with Him — that’s what he’s got in the 2nd chapter.  See and remember I told you always get these subjects and predicates together.  See this such thing of these chapters and verses being divided up here, not that’s, that’s what’s made a mess out of a lot of people.  You see because, now the subject may be up here in the 2nd chapter, and the predicate way down here somewhere 15, 20 verses deep in the 3rd chapter.  Now in the 2nd chapter he’s showing you how that ya, how you, uh, crucified.., oh well I’ll put it this way.  How you’re circumcised without hands.  And right in that, you was buried with Him by baptism into His death.  Listen Wallace!  And right in that you are raised with the operation of the spirit!  Now he hasn’t put no hands on nobody.  You got him circumcised, you got him buried, and you got him resurrected there.  You understand, you get it?

Now here he is.., I’m skipping, because I said I didn’t want to keep you here, see.  Now here’s the 3rd chapter, now you listen at it.  Read the 3rd chapter — begin with the First verse all over again.

Reader:  If you then be risen with Christ…

Dr. Kinley:  Now if ye,if,if!  If ye then be risen..  All right read.

Reader:  seek those things which are above. ..

Dr. Kinley:  (Repeats)

Reader:  where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God…

Dr. Kinley:  Now if ye be risen, don’t be seeking the earthly thing or the materialistic thing.  Listen now, because for this reason they only point to the spiritual.  See you take a natural to see a spiritual.  That’s reason why God give them a Law in a natural sense to lead them to the spiritual.  That’s reason why Paul is saying “The invisible thing of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the natural things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead.”  You are made like you are, a man walking around that you can look at, see put your hands on, feel and touch.  You understand, you understand?  You’re made like that to reflect the construction of a spiritual embodiment.  That is to say, you’re made in the likeness and image of Elohim, see.  That’s why you are like you are.  “If ye then be risen with Christ seek those things which are above..”  Now you been in the literal or the natural all your life, you was born in that.  Get the point?  “Seek those things which are above as Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.” Is that what you just read?

Reader:  um hum

Dr. Kinley:  All right read on.

Reader:  set your affections on things above…

Dr. Kinley:  (Repeats)

Reader:  not on things on the earth…

Dr. Kinley:  and not on materialistic things.  All right read.

Reader:  for ye are dead…

Dr. Kinley:  Now here’s why!  And, but, if and for are conjunctions that join together two complete thoughts!  So you are dead!  You’re… (you understand), from a literal, physical, natural point — you’re dead!!  Now you wouldn’t write a letter to a dead man, he couldn’t read it.  Would you?  That —— got better sense than that, he ain’t that big a fool.  What he is talking about is this.  The man is dead to the things of this world or to this materialistic realm.  You see?  All right read.

Reader:  and your life is hid

Dr. Kinley:  Now you’re dead, (and listen now), and your life!

Reader:  is hid with Christ in God…

Dr. Kinley:  See, now you say I’m alive, you say I’m walking around!  My life is hid with Christ in God.  Now here comes that idiot!  Says, “Listen here!  If you’re a Christian I wanna see you live the life!”  Well listen, can’t you see you have to get on up from here!  Come on up here where I am, see.  What he means by that, is he don’t wanna see you take a drink of whiskey.  See, he _ don’t wanna see you chew no tobacco!  You understand?  You see what I’m talking about?  Now he thought doing away with your habits, he calls that cleaning up!  He calls that getting sanctified and holy!  You understand?  That’s what he calls it, You see what I’m talking about?  Well he don’t know nothing about it.  You see?  Say, I eat what I please, drink what I please — that is none of your business!  And I don’t meddle with what you eat and drink, and the reason why I don’t, because it is none of my business.  And so don’t you come around talking about you wanna see me, see.  I eat what I want, drink what I wanna drink.  You understand?  And listen, I go where I please, come back when I get ready.  Say, “O Lord, said there’s a man he just come out of that place over there!  Don’t you know that’s the worse place in the world!”  You understand?  Said, “I just seen him come out!”  Well listen, where do you think, where you think a man of God is sent to?  He didn’t.., uh Messiah said, “He didn’t come to call the Christians or the righteous,” (you understand) He come to call the sinners!”  You got to go where the sinners are!  You get the point?  Now you’re belly-aching cause I just come out of a place where you said the sinners were.  You see what I mean?  Tel.., tell me you wanna see me live the life.  See, and you’re looking at me around down here.  Well now, somebody said, “Well now listen, didn’t James say?..”  You understand, alway saying, “Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this, is to visit the widows, and the orphans and their afflictions and to keep himself unspotted from the world.  Didn’t he say that?”  Yes he did say that, but you don’t know what he’s talking about.  You see?  Now this is what they thought, this is what they thought about that, because they live on this earth plane.  You understand?  Some woman died or some man died out yonder, (you understand), and they hauled him off to the cemetery.  And this is what they think James was talking about, see and before they got him in the cemetery good, maybe that same week.  You just got through telling you’re the pastor.  Said what James said, “Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this, is to visit the widows..”  Now here you said, telling me to go over there and visit that woman because she’s a widow now.  You see?  Said “I see his car sattin‘ out there!”  Said “That man ain’t cold good.”  You understand?  “I bet you he was running her before her husband died!”  That’s right.  You understand?  Peeping out from there behind.., Said “Look child I tell you,” (Peeping out the _ car), says “Well I seen him coming out from there.”  He said that’s what, that’s what, that’s what James said, “Pure and undefiled..”  See now if you do what you said that James said for you to do, you’re accused!  See, “Visit the widows and the orphans in their affliction, and keep himself unspotted from the world.”  You see what I’m talking about?  Now when you go to deal with that, (you understand), they, they’re over here talking about “I wanna see you live a Christian life.”  Just like they looking at what you eat and drink and meddling in your business.  You understand?  Now this is not a dietary regime.  And what you see often with your physical eye, (you understand), you can’t always count on it.  You understand what I’m talking about?  But what you see with your eyes, I’m not talking about these things, I mean the eye, the eyes of your understanding, (you understand), you can count on that.  You see what I mean?  You see what I mean?

Now if you be dead, if ye be risen with Christ seek those thing which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.  For ye are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God.  Read.

Reader:  when Christ who is our life shall appear…

Dr. Kinley: Now when Christ, when Christ who is our life..  All right.

Reader:  shall appear…

Dr. Kinley:  (Repeats)

Reader:  then shall ye also appear with Him in glory…

Dr. Kinley: See I, I’ll be right along with Him!  See you would look at me when I’m around here  — I don’t live here!  You see, understand, I live on another plane — the real me.  You understand what I’m talking about?  I’m dead and my life is hid with Christ in God.  Now if you wanna see me.., when you do see me (you understand), it’s just to late!  You understand what I mean?  Cause when He appears.. Somebody’s always talking about “The loving appearance or the blessed appearance..” But when He appears, He won’t be coming back after me either!  You understand?  No, no, I’ll be right with Him when He appear.  You see, do you see what I mean?  I’ll be right with Him and He’ll _ be right with me.  You understand what I’m talking about?  You see, you understand now?  That’s the reason why I said, “I don’t live on this plane I live in another state.” you understand?  That’s the reason why I can tell you what’s there.  You understand?  You see what I mean?  You wanna know, ask me.  How’s that?  I seen (you understand).  Do you, do you really understand what I’m talking about?  I seen, see.  Now look, I’ll say this and we’ll go home.

Enoch was translated before the flood.  Elijah was translated after the flood, (understand).  And you (now I mean without seeing death) Enoch was translated without seeing death, see.  Elijah was translated without seeing death.  And you are translated in this dispensation without seeing death.  Get it?  Now death reigned from Adam to Moses over everybody, Enoch, everybody, Elijah too.  You understand?  But those men had the Holy Ghost.  You understand, Enoch and Elijah them had the Holy Ghost.  Now that’s what translated them, (you understand) without seeing death.  Now here you are and the Holy Spirit is been poured out on you, (you understand) while you’re walking around, so then you should have been translated into the Kingdom of God without seeing death.  Your inner-self or your carnal self, dead!  You see, die daily there.  Make sure that that fellow is dead.  See don’t let Bishop Short get up in the morning… [Tape Ends]


You see.  He’s dead.  Better keep him murdered by all means.  Whatever he said, Bishop Short did it; you see what I mean, then you got trouble on your hands.  Get what I’m talking about?  Let’s go home.  Wonderful, ain’t it.

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