2) DECEMBER 6, 1958: MINISTERS’ MEETING
BEFORE FIRST CLASS IN LOS ANGELES
by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley
December 7, 1958
The Night Before the 1st Class in Los Angeles, California
Los Angeles, California
2 90 minute audio cassettes
transcribed by June Plewes
proofread by Mary Colucci, Tricia White, Irene Young,
Geraldine Rothstein, and Mary Gross
approved by International Public Relations Committee – January 1995
1. … indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.
2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.
3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, uh, see, you see, you see what I mean, do you see what I mean, you see what I’m talking about, do you see what I’m talking about, understand, you understand, do you understand, understand what I mean, ain’t that right.)
4. ___ indicates an inaudible word or syllable
5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber
Dr. Kinley: .. take place and how to. I think it’s necessary for us all to be informed along those lines because the people that ordinarily would come through for you for the first time to find out what you had to offer them what’s of any particular value and worthy of their return and association with you. This is in this area or in the State of California a new thing to the people of the community but not a new thing in a sense. In the philosophical context of the people in the community. Now they are going to judge the worthiness of the philosophy through what they’re able to observe and find out at their first association with you in a meeting.
I just wanna caution here before we are exposed. We don’t want to manifest to the people that are seeking knowledge and intelligence any of our ignorance. We want to be careful what we say and how we act and fully conscious of the fact that there are people there seeking to know something about God and the Universe in which we live and not about our domestic problems, about our environment, and about the hardships and so forth and so on that we have established in here and so forth and so on. And we don’t want to express that we have went to school for 26 years past in the City of Springfield and since 1940 in Cincinnati and haven’t learned yet how to conduct ourselves in the public–and how to act as if though they were many many things that you don’t understand, basically I’m speaking. And so far as the doctrine and philosophy is concerned, it would be better to allow the teachers to present it. If you find that somebody is going to try to get somebody off in a corner to get their opinion of you. What do you think of it and what have you learned? And then if you come up with this kind of a thing that you have been going ever since 1940 and you haven’t learned nothing, then why could you expect somebody else to learn? Which means, in front of them, that we don’t have no teacher because if the teacher hadn’t taught, then the people hadn’t learned.
Nothing is being taught so there’s nothing to be learned. So this is a thing we have to watch. If we speak anything at all, for the Lord’s sake, let it be your appreciation for the manifold blessings which God has so graciously bestowed upon you irrespective and regardless to the length of time that you have been with the school as a whole. And I think that by so doing, showing your appreciation and your respect for the teaching, that it will encourage someone else.
Again, we don’t want to go into.., among new people, and fail to make them welcome. Don’t meet no strangers, whatever you do, don’t meet strangers. Don’t go in groups off into little isolated groups among our own people and forget to make the visitors welcome. Don’t do that! Let it be the law of commandments that thou shalt not isolate, segregate, and fail to make those who come seeking the truth welcome and feel free to be accepted among you. A lot of attitudes and dispositions will be basically upon your friendliness. And your anxiety to have them present and make them feel welcome. I thought it was my duty to tell you about those things. Be careful. Bend over backwards to make them welcome.
Now Mr. Merten, we wanna cease calling him Mr. Merten. We want to call him Dr. Gerald Merten, Assistant Dean. We also want to call all of our teachers by their respectful positions as instructors among this group, not that it means anything to me individually. I told you about that many many times before; but, to the other person, you let them know by addressing one another that you appreciate them as teachers. And, in turn, it is our indispensable duty to respect you not as a student body (those of you that are here in California who represent an integral part of the school) but as qualified charter members of this organization. It must go down in history that you that are here to help introduce the philosophy known as the Archetypal and Divine Patterns of the Universe that you are a part of this school. So bear that in mind. We want to take cognizance of it. We want to reckon you in the history of the founding of this school in the State of California as charter members. We want all of you to feel, without isolation, without segregation, or without degrees of or varying degrees of respect that you are a charter member of this school.
So please bear those things in mind as we go to and from school. Feel it your indispensable duty to the Lord at all times. And never, under no circumstances and conditions, attempt to say something that wouldn’t be commendable in the public about the school, which you are a charter member of. Don’t say it not only over there in the building, don’t say it in the community. Refrain from saying it anywhere, to your friends or what not. There may be yes some things you’re not pleased with. There may be some things that you don’t like. There may be some things which you feel that shouldn’t be. But that’s not what we come to California to talk about. And there can be nothing here in the State of California that wasn’t in the State of Ohio. And there can not be nothing in the State of Ohio that’s not in the State of California. So bear in mind, that our primary objective is to teach people a better way of life, teach `em that there is a great God of this Stellar Universe, teach them the possibility of them knowing Him as He actually exists, teach them that you have
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of the esoteric secrets introduced by those who have had communication and contact with the great God of this universe and you have received through their contact a way or a definite pattern to measure the concepts of mankind against something that will stand up under scrutiny and investigation, and that without wavering. If it’s good for you, it’s good for them. So let us see to it that we try to reconcile them to the same thing that has been of some special benefit to you. Show them your anxiety, your ambition, your sincerity to have them embark on a new train of thought in discovering something that is genuinely divine. Now do you understand what I mean?
Now we have talked quite a good bit this afternoon. In fact, I had a gentleman here in the house, Mr. Anderson by name, a gentleman that was here with Mr. Scott just a few weeks before he vacated these premises. He is from Chicago (and being from Chicago, and just like the rest of the people in the community, that’s going to come to see what you have) he studied the Oriental Philosophy of the Far East, Buddhism, Taoism; and he has a deep respect for the concepts of many of the philosophers. He discards Christianity. He thinks that it was adopted from the Far East with the diversity of variations and employed in America to teach the people; in other words, he does not recognize the fact that it is a Divine Revelation direct from God that should have the pre-eminence over and above many other philosophers who originated their morals and religious concepts from some of the founders of various different religions in the Far East, which means this to me: I don’t think that any other religion under the sun has anything concrete to offer over and above the Divine Revelation and the Pattern that God has shown to Moses and revealed to me that it was sufficient to reconcile and to judge man throughout the universe, not only man, I might say, to judge angels. And I fail to see how the concepts of any man, regardless of how academically qualified he is reputed to be from any branch of philosophy, or from any school under the sun…, I don’t think that his idea can be equivalent to that which God has revealed to Moses and the prophets and manifested to the world by Jesus Christ whom we recognize to be God Himself incarnated in the flesh.
To summarize that thing I would say this, that I don’t think that the creature possesses the ability to correct and to instruct the Creator. That’s it, summarized. And if he is living, why then I haven’t found out anything about it, and I don’t think you will. There may be and I do agree that there are some here that are capable and qualified to verify and to confirm and to support and to teach that which has already gone before; however, I think that there’s some here that know something about it, (and when I say here, I’m not referring to Ohio and neither am I localizing it by saying that in California) what I mean that God has never, at no time, left Himself exposed and allowed man to go along solely without anything to confirm or to verify His existence. I don’t think a thing like that has happened. So, as we go along, from time to time, we want the people to know that here is, for the first time in their lives, in the State of California, if not in the world, here is a standard to test the validity of every man’s concept, whether it be acceptable or rejected.
Now let me make you understand what I’m talking about. In all religions, all of them, and when I say that I’m grouping together Christian-doom, heathenism and everything under the sun, so I don’t want you to misunderstand, as far as you know anything about it, all the books on theology and everything else that you have ever read, nobody comes up with an introduction of a standard whereby that the world can either reject or accept a philosophy as being divinely inspired by God Himself; they don’t have no such thing. It is all the theory of this one, or the theory of that one, or the theory of somebody with no standard to measure by it or to evaluate it. Do you understand what I’m talking about? Now what do you mean by what you say? I mean that nobody, as far as my knowledge extends, can talk about and introduce to the world of mankind the archetypal or original, incorporeal or spiritual, intangible pattern from which a divine pattern was established to judge the validity and the divine authenticity of every human creature’s experience. As far as my knowledge extends, I don’t know nothing about it. Therefore, I say, yours stands out as a guiding beacon to the world. Now you might not have understood it as such. You might not be conscious of that fact but, nevertheless, that’s what it is. And you’ve often heard me say: this is the judgment of the world, this is sufficient to judge angels and all forms of philosophy. And we don’t want to walk around in the City of California, I mean in the City of Los Angeles, in the City of Hollywood, stupid and ignorant of that fact.
We want to be conscious of it at all times that the teaching which I’m fortunate to be associated with stands out from all the rest of them that ever lived on the face of the earth as a divine revelation direct, not indirect, but direct from God Himself, that shall judge the world. No, it might not have done you no good because of the fact that you was unable to recognize it as being as I have described. You might not have been dutiful conscious of it but that is what it is, so therefore I say to you, try to be submissive enough for God to reveal that great esoteric secret to you that it becomes a living reality within you that this is what it is. Let’s just sweep away all the debris of all of the philosophers.
As I told that man upstairs today, when we went back and talked about Zoroaster, Plato, Socrates. Herodotus, the first known historian that compiled together records, that way back there before the coming of Christ, there were many charlatans or false teachers and instructors. And the further back you go, aside and apart from Judaism just the more that you have to add to what you already know about, (are you listening?) that Jesus Christ Himself come on the scene years after and said, `all that come before me are thieves and robbers,’ and in that, He Himself spoke of Zoroaster as being a thief and a robber because the people looked upon him as the messiah, looked upon him as the person that had come to redeem and to restore understanding and to reconcile the world to one standard so that there could be peace among all the people. Do you get the full importance of what I’ve just said?
So if you want to talk about Confucius and his contemporaries. You understand me? If you want to talk about Plato and his contemporaries. You understand? We have it all summed up, all of it had come before, you see? Now the apostle Peter says this, says He has come. Not only Moses and the prophets, as compared to the rest of the philosophers, but he says now that we have a more sure word, in other words, since God has been manifested in the flesh, and spoken of Moses and the Prophets, verifying that their statements that God did say and now here is God Himself in a body that confirms that what they say was true is true. And to prove it to you, `peace be still,’ wind, waves and the miracles which he performed they speak for themselves in verification of the fact that Moses and the Prophets were sent of God. And Peter said, `we’ve got a sure word now’ cause we’ve had it demonstrated and verified. Do you see through what I’m talking about? Do you understand me? So let us not try to run way back of Jesus Christ and seek some man’s concept of God and the Universe with his inability to present and to prove that it is correct over and above that of Jesus Christ who was God himself manifested in the flesh, seen of Angels, believed on in the world, preached unto the Gentiles, and received up into glory.
Now, let’s reach back and get that same thing again. Many of them have been put to death and some of the philosophers tell us, many of them, like Zoroaster and others have been crucified and died for what they believed but none of them have never yet raised from the dead. You see through what I’m talking about? He’s still out there. Do you understand me now? Christ is the firstfruits of them that raised from the dead, He’s the only one that’s ever been in the grave and come out of it, showed Himself many times for 40 days, to be more exact, and on 11 appearances that He was raised from the dead. His death was witnessed when He hung out there on the cross. Why everybody, they wanted to collect and hang around the cross and see Him die. Even God, the solar system bore record that He was the one that Moses and the Prophets said would come and it turned dark over the face of the earth from the 6th to the 9th hour. And nowhere in the annals of history, neither profane or sacred, is there any record of any days like that before or since at His death and the commemoration of it. And as I say it to you, He is the first one that was ever planted in the heart of the earth and raised from the dead and walked back to the disciples that followed Him around over the Judaen hills and appeared to above 500 of `em at one time that they might look at the nail prints and expose Himself. He’s the first one. Then, stepped aboard a cloud and passed out of their view and nobody has no history, nobody has no record of His reappearance and a funeral because I said that to say that He only has immortality dwelling in light, which no man can approach. And I don’t think, on my part, that there should arise in the course, not only of one lifetime, but a half a dozen life times, I don’t think that any troubles of any nature or any sort or any kind could arise that would justify our relinquishing hope on eternal life. I don’t think that they’d do it in many lifetimes that the troubles known, that we have had in the past or that we will have in the future, would justify the sense of turning loose of eternal life and deciding and in favor of eternal destruction. I don’t think that it’s.., anything could happen. Paul did use this statement `that I am persuaded,’ (oh, you oughta weigh these things) `I am persuaded that neither life nor death, principalities or powers, things present, or things yet to come, shall separate me from the love of Christ.’
Now some of us, because things don’t go to suit us; we say, `well I lay my religion up on a shelf and cuss you out.’ I don’t think my wife, she is present. Well understand when I say she is present, I mean she’s a physical, human being in the world, I don’t think she’s worth it, not to me nor no other woman, I mean to sacrifice eternal life in favor of anything that is present, that’s what I’m trying to say to you. Principalities or powers. When you speak of principalities and the powers that be I mean political, ecclesiastical, or otherwise. We don’t have the principalities, we don’t have the powers and no ___, they don’t know anything about or ever heard of that’s worthy of me relinquishing my hope on eternal life in favor of accepting something that doesn’t appear to me as a reality and that I can adopt and become a counterpart of me. Do you understand? I don’t think of anything.
So now let’s look close again as the Apostle Paul said, `examine yourself, see whether you be in the faith or not.’ Well somebody said, `well, if I ain’t in it, I certainly have got a lot of company.’ That won’t help you none. See what I’m talking about? And they always wanna point their fingers at you, that same old adamic trait. Adam said, `now that woman you gave me.’ She could have turned around and said, `yes, if it hadn’t have been for you, from whence I came, then this wouldn’t be.’ So passing the buck is not gonna help it none. It’s an individual affair, it’s a personal affair. Do you see through what I’m talking about? What does it mean to you? No, I’m not talking about that, I’m talking about.., I don’t want to lock hands with the world and go to hell, I wanna be saved. You see what I’m talking about? That’s what you should look at.
And listen, I would like to say this at this point right here. There are many many precious promises in the Bible. That if we become sincere and honest and if there be a God, which we believe that there is, and if permissible, I’d like to change the story or the statement from saying if we believe and say that we know that there is. And now at this cardinal point, I’d like for you to read something for me. Mark, the 11th chapter and the 22nd and the 23rd verse. Let’s stop, stop tonight dead in our tracks and test this statement. Let’s challenge if we’re in doubt and let’s apply tonight. Let me give you some grounds upon which you challenge. And you can use equivalent positions or grounds or premises if you want to.
Here we are in California tonight. Now you can speculate it whether we shall have success or not. You see through what I’m talking about? Some of us have been from one place to the other and we haven’t found a job yet. And we haven’t accomplished some of the things that we had anticipated. You understand me? I’m trying to lay it down now. I’m putting something down for you to look into. No, I don’t mean to accuse or abuse nobody about nothing. That’s not why I brought it up. The reason why I brought it up, I’m trying to give you if you understand me some grounds for you to test and find out whether this, what’s written in this Book is valid or not? That’s what I’m talking about. Do you understand me? So don’t think I’m trying to throw something at somebody. I’m not. And quite frequent, when somebody finds something that they want or had hoped to come into possession of, they don’t give God no credit for it no how. Ain’t that right? So you just might as well try it on a basis of an experiment and look upon it and say, `well I just had good luck.’ Ain’t that right? If that’s what you want to call it. Wasn’t conscious of the fact that God did bless you —you understand. Read.
Reader: And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Dr. Kinley: Jesus answered and said unto them, have faith in God. Look, put a period there. Have faith in God. Now He said for you to have faith or have confidence in God. Now for you to have confidence in God, you’ve got to first arrive at some positive or definite conclusion that there is a God. You can’t have faith in something that you don’t know nothing about, can you? Have faith in God. That, that’s a very short sentence, isn’t it? Have faith in God. Four words. Read.
Reader: For verily I say unto you
Dr. Kinley: For truthfully I say unto you
Reader: That whosoever shall say unto this mountain
Dr. Kinley: That whosoever. Now that whosoever, would that include you? Would that include them that He was speaking to back there? Or do you want to exclude yourself? Take your choice. You see, he said that whosoever; in other words, it don’t make no difference who it is, even if it’s me. Ain’t that right? It just don’t make no difference. Whosoever. Read.
Reader: shall say unto this mountain
Dr. Kinley: shall say unto this mountain.. Then, I’m sick unto death and it looks like great big mountains. You don’t see no way in the world to get over them. `I just don’t see how I can accomplish it, I don’t know what I’m gonna do, everything has piled in from it from every angle and I don’t know what I’m going to do.’ And some people just go ahead on and go crazy (that’s right) cause they just don’t see no way out. Ain’t that right? I know of a murder case in, in Springfield. The man left the statement or made this kind of a statement
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Dr. Kinley: And if my memory serves me right, he left the statement saying he didn’t know no other way out. What’s wrong? He didn’t have no faith in God, one of them great big mountains got in his way and the only way out he could find is just go ahead on and do away with the whole thing. You see? Now there’s a whole lot of bad things that occur in life because you and I don’t see any way out. And tragedy is the result of not seeing no way out.
You see what I’m telling you now? And then you wait to see whether to stand there and wait to see whether He’s gonna get going. I wanna get you to see. Now they’ll be there, if.., be thou removed and cast into the sea. Now basically, the premises for the removal of the mountain is in the next sentence. Read.
Reader: and shall not doubt in his heart
Dr. Kinley: And shall not doubt in his heart
Reader: but shall believe that
Dr. Kinley: but shall believe
Reader: that those things
Dr. Kinley: that those things
Reader: which he said
Dr. Kinley: which he said. Now wait a minute, them things which you said. Huh?
Reader: shall happen
Dr. Kinley: Alright, repeat
Reader: But shall believe those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Dr. Kinley: Now look here. Let me tell you something. Now that’s quite a bargain ain’t it? Ain’t that quite a bargain? Have you tried that receipt or that cure for some of the ills? Have you tried it? Get the point? Ain’t too many of us tried it have we? It works. Now that’s a sure shot there, but look, James said, `if you don’t receive it’s because you ask amiss.’ You see that now? If you don’t receive, it’s because you ask amiss. Do you see that now? Let me get the last verse. If you don’t receive, you ask amiss; in other words, it means this: that you didn’t have no faith in God. Now that’s a thing that is happening everywhere, so through just recitations or just reciting. A lot of them they just write down prayers as they call `em. Formulated prayers not anything that is unctioned by the Holy Spirit, but somebody has wrote a receipt or a recitation and you learn to repeat or to recite it as we did in infancy when mothers taught us to get down on our knees and say, `our Father which art in heaven’ and in some cases, say, `now I lay me down to sleep, and I pray the Lord my soul to..’ Yes, it’s reciting with no expectations of receiving anything, just a formula and just as.., I might say customs and traditions and we have grown up with that in us and consequently we don’t have any faith in the existence of the true God of the universe. And we just say something just as a routine and as a repetitious formula and consequently we have asked amiss because we had no confidence in it when we was talking and it didn’t go no higher than our head and therefore we didn’t receive anything or consequently we asked amiss with no faith, no confidence, no expected results. Just preformed, just a tradition, just a custom, just another recitation. And we brand it and label it a prayer. But suppose we get, as they say, real shook up about the thing, real sincere about it, so much sincere until you can get our inner consciousness concerned about it, (you see the point?) and look for some results. Why don’t you try that one. Wouldn’t it be better to try that than it would be some of the things we have tried. Now that we don’t mention the things that we’ve tried to solve our problems. We don’t want to hear about it, ain’t that a fact? Let’s don’t go into that at all. Now there’s a cure and there’s a formula. There is a receipt for success. Read.
Reader: Therefore I say unto you, whatsoever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye will receive them and ye shall have it.
Dr. Kinley: Now you see that? Now I didn’t say that so don’t go around saying, well, Dr. Kinley says, I didn’t say that. Ain’t that right? Won’t you try that and find out whether it’ll work or not. Can you give me a real good reason for not trying it to see whether it’ll will work or not? Somebody says well, `I believe I can,‘ Said, `I’ve tried it.’ Uhh uhh, sorry you didn’t, you just didn’t try it, you might have thought you did. Now if that ain’t no good, the rest of it ain’t no good. If that part right there ain’t no good, `seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven in its righteousness,’ that ain’t no good either. Nothing you can talk about is any good if that ain’t no good (get the point?) which means that we ought to be serious and sincere. Now let me tell you, I’m here hoping and anticipating success here in L.A. and Hollywood and I wanted to say these things to you tonight that you might be lifted up to such an extent that when we come to present ourselves before the Lord as ambassadors of God, that we don’t fail in our attempt to present to this part of the country the reality of God. Do you see what I’m talking about? That we don’t carry of our financial problems, that we don’t carry our domestic problems, that we don’t carry of our political concepts if we have any. Let’s clear this slate, let’s clean this slate and depend on God for success in this venture here in L.A. and in Hollywood. Let’s hope that some souls, somewhere will see the light. That as the Apostle Paul said. `that I might find words of speech and that I might speak as I ought;’ that I might find words and speak under the influence of the Holy Spirit that some soul out there might comprehend, some who might understand. And for all of our shortcomings, financial, financial and otherwise we might be able through this receipt, through this prescription that has a frame of the guarantee on it direct from the Creator of the universe that we will succeed if we just only have faith in God. What better could I say to you tonight? Do you know of anything? Frankly and honestly I do not know, I don’t know of anything better to say to you tonight: have faith in God. And if you don’t have any, now’s a good time to try to muster up some confidence in God. If you do have some, now’s a good time to employ it. This is the thing that we had anticipated when we first left home. We are now on the threshold of it after spending many hundred dollars.
And we have looked all at you, now till tomorrow, tomorrow night. Let’s go home. Let’s go to sleep with faith in God that whatsoever the troubles are, let’s look at it from a new angle beginning tonight. Let’s look at it with courage and hope and anticipation and confidence in God. You see what I’m talking about? Let’s look at it from tonight on. Ask him for courage. Some of us, as one man did do, he realized that he didn’t have no faith, that… And he said to Jesus, `Lord I believe, help thou my own belief, raise me up to the place where I have some confidence.’ Said, `I want to believe it, but help me up to the place where it can become a reality for me.’ See what I’m talking about. Maybe some of us need to try to pray for some faith (if we don’t have) some confidence in God, enlighten me some kinda of way, help me out with under some… As there’s one fellow one time said, `Lord,’ said when he went up to the temple and there was another fellow up in there, talking about, said, `I ain’t.., I, I thank God I ain’t like that fellow over there, like that Pharisee over there.’ And the Pharisee was say.., I mean the Pharisee said, `I thank God I ain’t like that fellow over there, the Publican. The Publican, he was standing over there. What was he saying? The Publican was saying that he was a sinner. He knew that he was and he was honest enough to admit that he was. And this fellow standing over here all blowed up within himself said, `I’m a good fellow and I just appreciate the fact that I ain’t like old so and so over there.’ And so that’s the Publican, he’s over there, he admitted that he was a sinner, and just said, `bless me.’ And he went down, they both went down out, but the Publican went down more justified than the other fellow. Why? Because he was willing to admit his guilt. And there he was talking about he was so much better than anybody else. So it wasn’t necessary that he…, wouldn’t admit his.., cause he’s alright. Yeah, there’s a way that seemeth right unto a man in his own mind, and that’s the way he felt about it, but that wasn’t the way God looked at it. See what I mean? The thing of it is, I told you time and time again that I don’t do too much sleeping myself. I have something to think about. And then let me put it this way, if it wasn’t God, then I would have been in the insane asylum long ago cause I couldn’t stand the pressure and the strain that I’ve been under lo these 27 years. And the blasphemous assaults that I have had to suffer, see, and the abuse that I’ve had to suffer, I couldn’t stand it, I couldn’t take it at all. You don’t have no idea of what all I’ve been through with. I’m not patting myself on the back, I’m just trying to make a statement of fact but look, it don’t mean nothing. It’s rather something for me to boast about rather than for me to complain about it. Ain’t that right? Paul said he counted hisself happy that he was even counted worthy to suffer for Christ’s sake. Ain’t that a fact? Have you.., happy that I’m even worthy to be counted to suffer. And then not only that, blood running down his heel, that would be ___ ___ and then he said this: `I reckon that the sufferings of this present time is not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us.’ Ain’t that right? Do you see what I’m talking about? Oh I tell you when you stop and just quit looking at things in a passive way, in a nonchalant and the I don’t care style. Oh, it don’t make no difference with me, I ain’t concerned. Well, as brother Jeff, `so what,’ that kind of an attitude. You see through what I’m talking about? Why don’t you and I or why is it that we take… Oh, yes, yes, I know that too. Somebody says, `well now look, all the preaching and teaching that you can do ain’t gonna do me a bit of good.’ Why? `Look at your life, look at the way you live, look at the way you do, look at what you said, look at what you done.’ Get the point? Now listen. One fellow thinks he can eat herbs and the other fellow thinks he can’t. See? Understand? And I am happy and just as glad as I can be that these carnal minded intellectual giants, God did not leave it to their discretion to judge right and wrong. I’m happy about that thing. And while you are pointing a finger of scorn at somebody else, don’t let it backfire, which it will usually do, it will backfire. Be careful before you pull the trigger or anything that is dangerous, it will explode right in your face.
So now the main thing about the whole thing, a whole lot of things when it comes to many things in, in life. And look, for your information, I hate to see the book compiled making the mistakes that I’ve made. It would frighten me. That of itself would be a great big mountain that I doubt, as a man I could get over it, round it or under it. Well that’s, that’s, that’s what I have been the biggest hit of my life is a mistake. I didn’t have to go nowhere for it to happen either, it happened right where I was. Do you see through what I mean? A mistake. So don’t you see, I don’t have nothing to do no throwing off on nobody about nothing. Do you catch my thought? I’m a man just like you. You understand; and the financial mistakes I’ve made. For example, I’ve made good money working from a child on up. Now evidently, I must have made some financial blunders somewhere. I ain’t got nothing. There, so that by itself tells you I’ve made some financial blunders, don’t it? Yes indeed I’ve made them. I ain’t trying, I ain’t trying to stay ahead of you. But the greatest mistake that a person could ever make is to not be concerned and lose your soul. I never intend to make a mistake like that. You see what I’m talking about? Some of my mistakes along the lines has been due to carelessness, some of them I didn’t care about, and I didn’t even investigate too well before I went and done something damned bedeviled for money or wasted some money, never looked into it thoroughly. If I had just stopped and thought and first one thing and another, and I’m sure that all of us at one time or the other have made some of them kinda mistakes, haven’t you? But foolish mistakes I’m talking about. I mean, you and I don’t wanna make the mistake of finding God and knowing him for our own selves. And let’s not make the mistake and the blunder of staggering on through life carelessly and lose our souls. That is the most important thing of it all.
And let me tell you something. Don’t you try, don’t you try to take someone else’s life to go by as a standard for yourself. Don’t do that! Now let me tell you why I said that to you. I went to church many times. I used to be assistant pastor. And I preached until I hemorrhaged, spit blood. And I seen some people, you couldn’t hold `em down. Just shout, shout, shout. Ask Kinley. Ask ___ Book ___ ___ ___ ___ took one of the other, took hard back Bibles and I’m preaching for dear life, and she took that old hardback Bible, with a lot of truth, and hit me up side of the head and, and it never even phased me, I kept right on preaching, and I’m not run out of ___ ___ ___ ___ and I just kept right on preaching. And I’ve seen people that shout and shout and shout. Now here’s the hard part of it. The same people, when the shouting was over, come right back, I had a lot of confidence, come right back and set right up in my face and look me straight in the eyes and accuse me of things that they didn’t know whether I was guilty of `em or not, they just enjoyed accusing me. Now I used to say to myself, I just wish I could be happy like sister so and so and brother so and so, I just wished that I could be like them. And I just thought I was having all kinds of troubles, and I picked out different ones in the congregation and I just hoped and I wished and I longed to see the day come when the cares of this life didn’t bother me and I could be free and happy to rejoice as I thought in the God of my Salvation as they were. Have you ever seen anything like that? Has anything like that occurred to you? Seeing people who just looked like they was happy all the time and I wished I could be like brother so and so and sister so and so. And then when you get down to rock bottom and God commenced to revealing a few things to you and really carried me on down into the depths, and you found out that they were happy over imaginations or a thought that wouldn’t hold water, it wouldn’t stand up under the scrutiny, then you begin to change your tone. I can’t shout over it. Ignorance. You commence to settling down, getting settling down, say `I’m sorry.’ Where you.., there you are. It ain’t like I thought, it ain’t like I imagined.
Now let me say in my closing remarks. We were in the City of Springfield, I believe brother Carter’s brother, Gene I’m talking about, come to our class in Springfield Ohio and I talked that night. And he had the temper and the nerve to say that some of the student body, `do you believe that stuff?’ Meaning this: somewhere along the line, we had attempted to explain something about water baptism and its effect and the dispensations and praise of Elohim. Now his church would be the Church of the New Jerusalem, or some… What, what was it? New Testament Church. Huh?
Man: Church of Christ.
Dr. Kinley: The Church of Christ. Lead on. It was the only church in existence and he just knew that he was right. He wouldn’t listen at nothing. And finally, finally since I’ve been here, he took off the crown and bowed low, said, `I’m sorry you’re right about it, I’m wrong.’
So now don’t you be too sure that the opinions that you have formed from your observations that look so good and so right to you as compared to what someone else thinks.., it oughta be like you think. You understand what I mean? Quite frequent the fault is within us, but we’re not willing to dispense with that. We’re too sure we’re right to admit that we’re wrong. It would be embarrassing and humiliating, it would be reproachful. It would be, truthfully, to come to this submission of these for me to admit that I’m wrong. Jeff, it’s just got to be you, there ain’t no way in the world that it’s me. You understand? Well that’s one of them mountains you can’t get over it. I can’t get this mote out of my eye, so I.., I can’t get this beam out, and here I am gagging at a gnat and here I done swallowed a whole camel in my own self-righteousness and condemnation of somebody else. I cannot see my faults for looking at yours. Just like Uzziah said or like Isaiah said, it took the death of King Uzziah for Isaiah to see the Lord. He just couldn’t see nobody but King Uzziah. And he had to, he had to die and be buried before he could see the Lord. He was always looking at the king. And he said the year that Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting up on the throne, high and lifted up and his train filled the temple. Do you understand?
So we don’t wanna be looking at somebody else all the time so much so that we can’t see the Lord. So now let’s let some of these Uzziahs and other… let, let them die tonight and commence to investigate. Do you see what I’m talking about? Say, `now look here Lord, I’m through, now look here, Lord…’ Jesus said, `have faith in God,’ and you said that whosoever and I’m including, I’m including myself even, that whosoever saith unto this mountain, be thou removed and cast into the sea and have no doubt in his heart. You said that I can have so what, whatsoever, you ask for (let’s put it that way) that’s guaranteed to be the truth. You see what I’m talking about? Now if that ain’t no good, the rest of it ain’t no good. You see what I’m talking about? And let me say this, that’s coming in real sure enough the personal investigation. You see what I’m talking about?
Now you don’t have to go out in the street, and say, `look Jeff, I’ve decided that I’m gonna ask God.’ You don’t have to put it in the paper. Now why? Because.., are you listening, have I got everybody’s attention? Now before you start to ask for the removal of some of them mountains, before you start, don’t start out wrong because if you do, you’ll ask amiss.
This is what he said do, (there’s a formula for it) said, `when you pray, or when you start to ask, enter into your secret closet.’ That could be walking along the street, that can be anywhere, within you. Enter into your secret closet, take some special pains and shut the door. Now what do you mean by that? There is a secret that is within you, the door is closed, everything else is shut out, I’m in my secret closet and now, I’m going to test, I’m going to pray, I’m going to ask, conscious of this fact, that I don’t know how to pray as I ought, but the Holy Spirit maketh intercessions for me with groanings that cannot be heard. So I can walk right along down in town, the door closed and no words at all, there ain’t any.., the door is closed, and your Father which seeth into secret will reward you openly. And you’ll get some of these things. Now that is the truth.
I don’t know how you accepted this tonight, whether you’re concerned about it or what, but I want, I want to say to you as I said in my concluding remarks, what I am saying to you, I have tried, and listen, I have been personally satisfied about it. I have received. I don’t have any complaints. And I don’t have no doubts about the formula either. One time I went back through my life and examined since God had given me this great vision and revelation. I went back through my life and examined it, looked at it real good. Oh, yes I know all about the accusations of my life. I’m not talking about that. And trying to get some convictions about me and all them things, I’m not talking about that. No need to put it in the picture, but I have looked back on some of it, everything had a, everything I could think of and asked God for… I’m putting it in some words you can understand. I tell you the honest truth, God being my secret judge, I’ve got what I asked for. And I thought that thing over carefully. And I’ve asked for some things that would stagger you, most people. Some people would be frightened to even ask for. They wouldn’t have any confidence to believe that they ever would receive any such thing. I’ve asked for and gotten them. That’s the honest truth. As I say, I call God for a record upon my soul I am speaking the truth. And behold, I lie not, I have found. I don’t feel that I’d be justified in complaining about the things that I have asked for. Yes I’ve asked for some things that I know that was impossible, for anyone else other than for God himself to grant. But I have gotten and I wanna say to you tonight. Put the things in His care, go home and try it out some. Think about it tomorrow and the next day and the next day and the next. Do you see what I’m talking about? Find out whether failures and all in life is due to our unbelief or not. Do you understand? Sort it out for what it really is. Now I don’t say you don’t get results out of nothing. I know that too. Anyhow, you’ll miss out if you ask amiss. Some people ain’t even concerned enough to ask God for anything so he blesses them right off just the same there (they aren’t conscious of it) but he does. He let’s the sun shine in the backyard of the wicked just like he does in the righteous. Ain’t that right? You see?
But remember as Solomon’s said, `rejoice Oh young man and walk after their imaginations of your heart, but while you’re doing it, just remember, all these things God shall bring them to the judgment.’ Don’t you think because a lot of things that you are displeased with and all them kinda things justifies you in doing it in every kind of way. And when I say that, I mean not be thankful to God for the blessings that He bestows upon you because you have to pay for that, that the price is too great. Let it be the death of the Christ out there is compensated or restored or redeemed you. You understand what I mean? Let it be that. I don’t want to be charged for ignoring the sacrifice that God has offered up for the restoration and the redemption of the world. I can’t–I can’t pay the bill. See the point? So it’s better to depend on God. Isn’t that right? Do you, do you understand what I mean? Now I hope I have at least given you some encouragement.
Woman: Dr. Kinley?
Dr. Kinley: Yes Ma’am
Woman: I have a question.
Dr. Kinley: Yes Ma’am
Woman: When you said that yes I know that I asked for some things that is impossible. I’m wondering about the possibility of God. What I’d like for you to explain, what could you ask that was impossible with God?
Dr. Kinley: Well I wasn’t speaking along those lines, sister Harris, that I’ve asked for anything that was impossible for God to give. I hadn’t, I didn’t mean it that way.
Woman: You mean that it was impossible with you?
Dr. Kinley: That’s right, that’s right, that’s right. Now let me, let me, let me refer to one of those things. Let me make personal reference to it. Now you can appreciate how I felt or how you would feel if your son were dead, not dying, but dead. Lying right back at you and you were confused about it. Do you understand? As one lady said here not long ago, she felt pretty bad. Why? Because she couldn’t see why that God had taken her son and her husband. She couldn’t see no justice in it. She couldn’t see why. What had she done to cause Him to do that? You understand? Now at the trouble, look at the baffled position in which I’m in at the time. I had been assistant pastor. I couldn’t agree with the teaching in every detail. I wanted to be associated with the people; and those whom I called my very best friends, they were scorning me, accusing me for something I had never did. I had no way to prove to them that the accusations that they made against me was not true. You understand? Now here I stand and yet I’m wondering within myself, not about the accusations that they told me, that they accused me of, but just the fact that I’m a preacher out here.
Now did God actually pick my son because I’m out there preaching what I ought not to have been, cause I admit this to myself, I knew this was a lot of things I didn’t know. And there was some things I thought I knew, I later discovered that I didn’t know them either. And now is this the penalty, to take my son from me. His mother had him over in Indianapolis. And he was home about two or three days or something like that and he was a corpse. When she brought him home, why, we didn’t know what it was. He was just hoarse and come to find out that he had diphtheria. Doctor came out there and stirred up some stuff in a glass and give him every two hours and said, `he’ll be alright.’ `What is it Doc?’ `Membranous croup.’ I didn’t know what membranous croup was. And then he kept getting worse and worse and worse. I called in Dr. Easton. Some of you live in Springfield know him, and Dr. Easton walked in the door. He smoked a cigar all the time. And he looked and he said, `you called me too late, if you had called me a couple of hours ago, I might have given him twenty thousand units of diphtheria anti-toxin and saved his life, but now all we can do is just look up in his veins because his pulse isn’t strong enough to carry it.’ And he was fading on out and he died.
Now there I sit out on the front porch. Even people that were my friends that knew me couldn’t go in and see him because they closed the casket, just Membranous Croup or in other words, Diphtheria. They both mean the same. I don’t know what is the difference. But anyhow, now as we understood it was Diphtheria that contagious disease. No, no, just a private funeral. And here I sit out there wondering and I’d been a Holiness preacher, see? And here I set out there wondering whether or not that God had taken my son. And you asked me because…. And I asked God to let that star fall. It fell. While I was sitting there, I thought of Gideon and his, and his fleece. And I asked Him to let another fall and another of the third kind. And that actually happened.
Now I said that to say that was one of them impossible things for man, to take one of them stars down. That was a personal experience that I had within myself. And behold, I say the truth, that is not a lie, that’s a fact for that is the truth. That actually happened. That’s what I meant to tell you. And some other things just like that I knew, that no man didn’t have nothing to do with. While it was impossible for man to do that, it was possible for God to do it. That’s what I had reference to. Now there is some impossibilities with God. One of them impossibilities is this… We have told you tonight about having faith in God. And Jesus said, `verily, verily I say unto you, that whosoever shall say unto this mountain be thou removed and cast into the sea and have no doubt in his heart, shall have whatsoever he saith.’ Now if it’s impossible for God to lie, then that’s the truth there. You see through what I’m talking about?
Well sir, I tried it, and it didn’t work but it still yet the truth cause God can’t lie. The fault is within us. Now did I answer your question?
Dr. Kinley: That is what I had reference to. And I can think of a dozen things or more that time would fail me to tell you about.
TAPE 2 SIDE 1
Dr. Kinley: Or any of the rest of you. That’s why I recommend a trial. Try it. See what you get out of it. Have some confidence in God.
Now we’ve been working with outlining a program. Eight o’clock tomorrow night. Don’t come expecting a great long lecture because that’s not what we expect. We want you to have kinda of a.., well, shall I say informal opening, an announcement of about the teaching and welcome the people and Dr. Merton and Dr. Harris and Dr. Gross and myself. We shall adhere to introduce our objectives to the people and make `em welcome to be along.
And incidentally while I’m thinking about it. We received a letter today from one Conley, Conley Shoemaker, welcoming us to California and commending us,if my interpretation of the letter is right, for not bringing in another man made philosophy. So we let you know that what was in the paper that somebody has respect and appreciation for us. And they’re looking it up and introducing some true philosophy. And, incidentally and evidently it was, they had a letter–they, I forget what it is now–or what it said on it. It seems to me like some established organization of some kind.
Man: Peace Within is the name.
Dr. Kinley: Yes, peace within is the name. I didn’t know whether Conley Shoemaker come in with a woman or a man. I’m still undecided about it. I never heard of anybody with a name of Conley before. So you can decide whether it was a woman or a man but anyhow, it appears to be some kind of an institution. So then don’t be surprised if some of these people come, there that are heads of institutions. And incidentally, I’d like to mention this to you too. When the newspaper hit the street, it hadn’t been out two hours before here come a person that had saw it. I mean over to the place there who had saw it advertized it in the paper. See. And then I said two hours before here they come. And some of our people met them in the place. Is that right Brother Freddie?
Fred Allen: Yes
Woman: We had a couple today.
Dr. Kinley: We had a couple today. So I wanna let you know, I wanna let you know it is a great thing. I’m depending on you to help me. If you don’t feel like helping me, please don’t hinder me. Ain’t that, is that fair? Please don’t do that. If you ain’t interested, please let me go ahead on. Kinda like the fellow that went hunting, said, `Lord if you don’t help me, please don’t help that bear.’ Now at this time, we want to get away and Dr. Harris and Dr. Merten have been upstairs and I was up there with them awhile trying to outline the program. I don’t know whether he is present or gone.
DR. HARRIS INTRODUCES DR. GROSS.
DR. GROSS THEN ENCOURAGES AND ADMONISHES THE CLASS FOR 5 – 10 MINUTES.
END OF TAPE
About 17 Pages