Institute of Divine
Metaphysical Research®

How Can We Help?
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by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley

Los Angeles, California

received from Lamar Greer

1 90 minute audio cassette

CATALOG #:  74.1117

Transcribed by Dr. Sandra Giragosian

proofread by Michael and Geraldine Rothstein

proofread and approved by International Public Relations Committee:  1996


1.  …indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.

2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.

3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley, pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, uh, see, you see, you see what I mean, isn’t that right, understand, you understand, do you understand).

4. ___ indicates an inaudible word or syllable.

5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber.


Dr. Kinley: Thank you ever so much. I’m always happy and glad to testify to the things that Yahweh has revealed to me. And I wanna say that there is a lotta things that is taught in this school that are hard to understand.

I know all of you enjoyed Dr. Pat Mathess, and we’re glad and happy to see a woman have that much ability and knowledge about the purpose of Yahweh, or Yahweh and His eternal purpose. It takes a little bit of study to come upon these things, to be revealed. And I wanna say this, too. There are many things, secret things, that belong to Yahweh, that He reveals unto His servants, that He just simply does not reveal to everybody that comes along.

And another thing about this whole situation is, now a person don’t just turn up to be a preacher, just because they wanna join something. Every last one of these ministers, they were foreordained or predestined to be a minister. They were called in Yahweh, way back there from the foundation of the earth. Now, a lotta people wouldn’t wanna believe that, nevertheless it’s so. And He has a record of… Now that’s hard to believe. Now that, that’s hard. It, it, it would be kinda hard for you to think that Yahweh has your name back there in the realm of eternity, way back there, Freddy Allen, Roger Jackson, and all like that. A lot of those things, it just don’t sound like they ought to be told. But it is, yes, indeed.

Now, there are so many deep, esoteric secrets that could be learned, if we were just obedient, that we really need to know. That’s been my interest, in the last three or four years and I’ve been bearing down pretty hard to give to you, to try to tell you about things that you should know. And now, there’s no need of you going anywhere else, because they just don’t know.

Now, that’s offensive right there, for me to stand up here and say that. Well, somebody think that their pastor out there knows this, he knows that, and he knows the other, and he don’t know a thing about it. Now, Dr. Pat Mathess just got through telling you about that, and every minister that gets up on this floor, and Dr. Harris went into some things this morning that those other ministers just simply don’t know nothing about. Don’t even have no idea about it.

Just like Dr. Pat Mathess, says, there again, that Ted Garner Armstrong of this Ambassador College up here in Pasadena, he said that his father didn’t know, a whole lotta things his father didn’t know, and neither did he. Now, that was said when I was in Springfield. And Dr. Hobbs called me up, I believe, on the telephone and told me that Ted Garner Armstrong was on, the phone, and I happened to be at Bob Buffington’s house at the time, and the TV was right on it at that time. And I heard him say it myself, that there was a whole lotta things his father didn’t know. Now, his father claims to be the one that Yahweh has sent in the world in the end of this age, to straighten this world out. He said, Ted Garner said there was a lot of things he didn’t know. I do agree with him on that. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) And he said there was a lotta things he didn’t know, too. Then, now, the true real facts of the matter, in the case, in the matter, now he said that, to defend them, he said, for example, of the things that they didn’t know. He said that his father nor he did not know that Jesus was back there with Moses. Said, but he was, but they didn’t know it. Now, listen, she told you, now, they got that book1 from us. We sent it to Ambassador College.

And we have contacted quite a few of these radio preachers, and ministers. And every once in a while they ease up on something, but they don’t want you to know, just like they’ve already told you where they got it from. Now, he didn’t tell you where he got it from.

But, now, suppose you look at Deuteronomy 29:29. Maybe, maybe I’ll just tell you about this, I don’t want to go long here, because I would rather just, I wanna tell you some deep things, and so… and still it’s hard for me to express and, and show you exactly what I’m talking about. Read.

Dr. Harris: The secret things belong unto Yahweh, our Elohim.


1 Elohim, the archetype, original, Pattern of the Universe.

Dr. Kinley: Now, the secret things belong unto Yahweh, our Elohim. Now, they belong to Him, the secret things. Now, you can’t get a hold of one of them things, one of them secrets, unless He reveals it to you.

Now, Solomon says this. Much study is a weariness of the flesh.2 Now, you can study until your head drops off, and that’s, that’s just not gonna reveal one of them secrets to you. It, it just won’t do it. So, Yahweh just has to have to reveal them to you.

Now, all of this work around here is a deep, esoteric secret, and it is a divine revelation come direct from Yahweh. And there isn’t anybody in this place, or in the world, that has enough sense to go out and to make these charts like this. They ain’t got that much sense. Now, that goes for me, too. I never did have that much sense. And I wouldn’t like for anybody to even give me credit for having that much sense. And if I told you that I only went to the Sixth Grade of elementary school, then you’d wanna say that you understood these things. You’d wanna say, ‘Well, no, you… you’re lying about that.’ That’s what a lot of the preachers said about me. And some of them knew me from a child up, too. And they said, ‘He, he went to school somewhere. He couldn’t use all them big heavy words, as they call them, unless he had went to school.’

And the Dean of Wittenburg University said, ‘Well…’ Dr. Gross gave him the script, manuscript that we wrote, and he says what he had to do was take the dictionary, and lay it down beside of it, the transcript, and them long-winded words, why, they would take almost three or four pages to explain one of those words, before he could get into the essence of it at all, he had such words as… Now, we speak of this, in the, in the, back here in the beginning, this is, we would say of the creator, we would say that cosmogony. Now then, when we get over here in the end, that’s eschatology. When we want to describe Him as having a form, shape and a form, we say that He was a great heavenly anthropomorphic being.

Now if you haven’t went to school, you wouldn’t know nothing about what we was talking about. And they’re just so many of the words, that we, Sister Mary and I had to spend ’bout nearly two years just working, taking them words out of there, that Dr. Gross asked me, and some of the boys back there, too. They, they wanted a manuscript that was, they wanted their school to be an outstanding thing. So, they said, ‘now, you go ahead on and use words, and if we don’t understand what you’re talking about, or, if we don’t understand the words you use,’ said, ‘we’ll look it up.’ Said, ‘just let us have them in pure academic terminology.’ And that’s what I did. Then, when I read it, they didn’t know what I was talking about.

Now, the book, the first book that we put out, now I worked with that thing, Sister Mary and I, for around two years, didn’t we?

Mary Gross: Yes.


2 Ecclesiastes 12:12

Dr. Kinley: Before we did it, just pulling out words, such words as that. There’s just a whole lot of words. Now, for me to tell you that I only went to the Sixth Grade of elementary school, now it sounds like a bare-faced lie. And then, if you took that thing right like it ought to be, I couldn’t learn nothing like that in the Sixth Grade. You know that.

Student Body: Right.

Dr. Kinley: That’s what makes it sound like lying. Well, it had to come from here. It really did. And then I refused. I began to think about it, and I said, wait a minute here. This, this… I don’t understand why God would give me something like this, and know good and well I haven’t got no background. None of my folks never amounted to nothing, when it come to education, and learning, and all like a that, I said, I, I think that, that there’s something wrong here somewhere. And, when I begin to consider, I was called a bibliomaniac, or a walking Bible. What the apostle said, he said not many wise and not many noble are called.3 I said, well, that fits me pretty good. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) But Yahweh has chose the weak things of this world to confound the mighty. I said, well now, that fits me pretty nicely. I began to see through it then. But I tell you, folks, when I had that vision, I honestly did not understand it. And the, the meaning of it had to be revealed to me: that is I had two blackouts, and then it was revealed to me that way.

Now, there are some things… For example, one of the things that Dr. Harris said this morning, that a minister stood in this pulpit and said that water baptism… That makes me think of Ted Garner Armstrong. We got an article there now, the “Good News,” that’s the new magazine that they put out. He said that water baptism was central to salvation, and he went on to tell that if you want to send for the book, you can forget all about water baptism.

So, Dr. Harris said that, this morning that, since John the Baptist, (now, you think about this) John the Baptist baptized the Jews, he didn’t baptize no Gentiles, now. He baptized the Jews that would accept it. And there were some of them that didn’t accept it at all, rejected it. Now, look now, and listen. That man said, standing in this pulpit right here, in this building, said that baptism, water baptism was to wash away your filthy sins. Is that what you said? Is that what he said? Now, quite a few of you set here and heard that man say that. Water baptism, in the way it was formed, was to wash away your filthy sins. Well, now, John baptized them here in the River Jordan before he died. Is that right? Now then, if water baptism… And look, I like to show it. Now, here’s something else I been intending to… Ever since I made these charts, and this’ll, this’ll be the first time I ever said anything about it. And that’s the River here, coming down this way, the River Jordan, comes down this way. Now, I put this up here to let you know that I know that the River Jordan don’t run across like this. Now, if you take your Bible and look in the back, at your maps, you will see that it don’t. It don’t run, it don’t run like this. But now, if you put the Tabernacle on it, and you place it in there like it belongs to be, the Tabernacle then can set it right. And that would manifest more than one thing. But, now, here’s what I wanna say about it. Here it comes down from the Sea of Galilee, or Gennersaret, and it flows on down into the Dead Sea or the Salt Sea. It empties into that. And it crosses, that river, before it got into the Dead Sea, just above the Dead Sea.


3 1 Corinthians 1:26

Now, if water baptism washed away your sins, then, it was awful stupid for the Savior to die out there on the cross for our sins. Now, you don’t need no sense to see that. You don’t need no sense whatsoever to see that, and yet and still, in the, in the Roman Catholic Church, and in many of the Protestant churches, they all believe in water baptism.

And they think that Jesus said for us to go and be baptized. And you don’t have one scripture, nowhere in your Bible… Now, we’ve got some good, good Bible students in here, too, and we’ve got some concordance, too. So… But now, if you happen to be one of them unbelievers, you start looking right now, and you’re about to see what I’m about to say, when you get around to say it. Yahweh, Elohim, and Yahshua, the Father, the Word or Son, or the Holy Spirit, the Lord, God and Jesus Christ, Jehovah, Allah, Baal, never, in the history of the world, said anything about a Gentile getting baptized in physical water as an ordinance, in your Bible from back to back, from Genesis over to Revelations. Now, if you think so… I’ll, I’ll give you a break, now. You find it and read it to me. You got a concordance, and if you want some help, we’ll give you some help. If you think it’s in there, and you don’t know just where it is, why you tell us where you think it is, and we’ll, and we’ll just stop and find it and read it to you. That’s not in the Bible. That’s contrary to the truth. Now, everybody, remember now, I give you a break.

Now, you can see then, if that was necessary for Him to.., them to be baptized before, and to wash away their sins, their sins should have been, according to the way that river run, it ought to have been in the Dead Sea. That is their sins washed away. Now read Revelations. I think it’s about 1:9. And then somebody get John, the first epistle, and I think it’s the third chapter. Dr. Jackson do you have it? Yes, that’s right, if we walk in the light. Read.

Dr. Harris: 1st John 1:7.

Dr. Kinley: 1st John 1:7.

Dr. Harris: But if we walk in the light,

Dr. Kinley: But if we walk in the light,

Dr. Harris: as He is in the light,

Dr. Kinley: as He is in the light,

Dr. Harris: we have fellowship

Dr. Kinley: we have fellowship

Dr. Harris: one with another,

Dr. Kinley: one with another,

Dr. Harris: and the blood

Dr. Kinley: and the… whoop! And the blood

Dr. Harris: of Yahshua, the Messiah,

Dr. Kinley: of Yahshua, the Messiah,

Dr. Harris: cleanseth us from all sin.

Dr. Kinley: Now, that’s venal and mortal sin. And you want all kinds. Now, they got different kinds in the Roman Catholic Church, but whatever kind it is, it’ll cleanse you from it. Everything but blasphemy. Now, Revelations, I think it’s 1:6.

Dr. Harris: Revelations 1:6.

Dr. Kinley: 1:6

Dr. Harris: And from Yahshua, the Messiah,

Dr. Kinley: And from Yahshua, the Messiah,

Dr. Harris: who is the faithful witness,

Dr. Kinley: who is the faithful witness,

Dr. Harris: and the first begotten of the dead,

Dr. Kinley: and the first begotten of the dead,

Dr. Harris: and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

Dr. Kinley: and the ruler… and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

Dr. Harris: Unto Him that loved us,

Dr. Kinley: Unto Him that loved us,

Dr. Harris: and washed us from our sins in His own blood.

Dr. Kinley: Now, now, now can you see that? Now, when you look up here at the pattern, in the migratory pattern, they had to offer up that lamb before they could leave Egypt, before they got to the water. Look at the, look at the pattern in the Tabernacle. They come in the gate here, in the gate there, and the first place you are, you put the blood on the altar there, before you get to the laver here, where the water is.

This pattern, this pattern dictates what’s happening and what’s going on. You can’t make no mistakes if you go by this pattern. It’s just a matter of absolute impossibility to make a mistake, if you go by the pattern. Now, if you don’t understand, this thing might look like scrambled eggs to you. As one person said, ‘That looks like scrambled eggs.’ Yeah, you’re right about that. And the message of Yahweh is deep, and He hasn’t done anything else, but just reveal them secrets to His servants, the prophets.4

Now, that’s all there is to it. You can’t read up on ‘em. They been trying that. And then, as Dr. Patton told you, which you should pay attention to it, too. And Dr. Harris said it this morning. And almost every time you come down here, we tell you the same thing, maybe a little different words, but the same thing.

They don’t know why Jesus went to John to be baptized in the first place. They don’t know. They think He’s setting up a Christian example for us. Let me tell you something. Christ was no Christian. I said that one time, oh, about thirty some years ago. And one of the boys that belonged to the school, his wife didn’t belong, he went home. And she said to him. Said, ‘We had Sunday School.’ Afterward he went home and told his wife. And the wife said to him, ‘Well, what did you learn this morning?’ He said, ‘I learned that Christ wasn’t no Christian.’ She said, ‘lt’s time you quit going down there.’ (DR. KINLEY AND STUDENT BODY LAUGH) No, He was the real thing! Yes, indeed. And so, the thing of it is, what we’re teaching down here is hard, hard to be understood.

Now, I brought that thing up. And I wanna tell you about a few things. But there’s just one thing right there, you could see, if you just, just, just wanted to. Now, when they went to John to be baptized, they had to confess their sins. And if they didn’t confess their sins, then John wouldn’t baptize them.

Now listen here, from the High Priest on down, and he was about the highest authority there was, he and Moses, back there at that time. And the High Priest, he had to offer for his own sins, or his own errors, and then for the errors of the people. Now, if that caught the High Priest, then that means that everybody had to be, had to be baptized back there.

Now then, what I’m trying to say to you is this. Now, if that be the fact then, and water has washed away your sins, now why is it that some of these preachers, it has never been revealed to them that water baptism just don’t wash away nobody’s sins. What’s the purpose of water baptism? Now, let’s carry that thing a little further.

Now here is a fetus. You know what that is, don’t you? A fetus. (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) Now, even them words that Yahweh don’t have no intentions of revealing no secrets or nothing like that, and, and this condition, they didn’t, they didn’t have no idea of that. But see, feed us… Now, that’s what took place in the Wilderness of Sinai. They were fed of that bread, manna, right in the same place, right back here where the fetus is. Now then, that fetus is surrounded in a bag of water in the womb. Is that right, Dr. Harris?


4 I Corinthians 2:9-12

Dr. Harris: Right!

Dr. Kinley: Now, listen, there isn’t anybody in this building, that hasn’t been baptized in water. That had to be, for you to be here. Now, how about that? (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) You follow now? I’m just showing you how smart Yahweh is, and how stupid we are. We talk about a whole lotta things we don’t know nothing about.

Now this… Now, this, that child is in mother, is in its mother’s womb, and it is surrounded by water, and then it has a placenta right above it, just like you have clouds above you, or the Children of Israel had the cloud above them when they went through the Red Sea, and they were surrounded by water. Oh, I tell you.

Now then, take this on back now, just to show you now, how smart and how large Yahweh is. Now, there’s lots to say about Israel coming up out of the sea here, and being baptized and inundated in that tunnel right there, in the cloud and in the sea, being baptized in there, and going into the Wilderness.

But now, we have to go on back further than that. That child is in his mother’s womb. Now, you have to go clear on back in mother earth. And here’s Adam, he’s inundated in that water that covered the face of the earth, and every sinew, and every fiber, and every tissue, and every cell was inundated in the bowels and the womb of mother earth. Adam, I’m talking about. Now, Yahweh baptized him in the creation of the world. And it’s drawn out right here, that that is the case. That is before you got to the Red Sea. Now, that’s the first man, Adam, in the bowels and womb of mother earth.

Then He comes up and duplicates that thing by that seed or the sperm that is injected into the womb. And it takes on a fetus there, or the embryonic state. And then it takes on shape and form there in the womb. Now, a lotta times, when we’re talking about it in taking on shape and form in this cloud, these attributes, inorganic, just like the spermatic fluid, inorganic. And that child takes on a shape and a form, when the sperm of a male and female ovum get together. Then we try to show you how this cloud, which symbolized pure spirit, how that this… Now, this, this… I said symbolized spirit. I didn’t say it was spirit, now. I said it symbolized that.

But now, while we’re on that, I’d like to bring you up something real nice and deep. Now then, we talk about the nine attributes, the nine planets, the nine systems in your body, and you can read about the nine planets. You can read about the nine vessels that is in this, the Tabernacle. Right? Now, then it has the Court Around About. Now, the cloud is the Court Around About. In other words, even the tenth… Ten is concrete. That’s all she wrote. Five is abstract and ten is concrete. So the cloud that he saw it in, saw everything in that cloud, saw the Creator, and everything else in that cloud. They take on shape and form there in that cloud, that is the organization of these attributes. Now, what is formed first? Now, you’re way on down in there now. What is formed first of the attributes? Now listen, I’m talking about Elohim, Yahweh Elohim now, right here. Which is formed first?

Student Body: The head.

Dr. Kinley: The head! Then if that be true then, then you have the first born, God, as you call Him. Oh, boy, I’m telling you. Listen. Now, the reason why… Maybe you’re wondering why I brought that up that way. When Moses, he was told to come up there and get the Ten Commandments, and they were written in tables of stone. Now, before he went up, I’d like for you to see this. Now, this is important, and you probably won’t hear nothing more about this, unless you hear it in this school.

Now the Genesis, now you call that the first book of the Bible. I thought about it this morning, when Dr. Harris was talking about it. He said the first book of the Bible, and you go and begin at the beginning, so you begin at Genesis 1:1. No. You can’t learn nothing there, because you don’t have the cloud in Genesis 1:1. It don’t say a thing about the cloud. Do you see that now? The cloud is absent. Now then, not only that. Listen what I’m gonna say now. Are you listening?

Now, Moses, when Yahweh had spoke from the top of this mountain, and gave him those commandments, which you have in the 20th chapter of Exodus, Moses wrote the words that Yahweh spake down. He put ‘em down on tablets. Then he took the blood of bulls and of goats, and had all the blood of the sacrificial animals, and he sprinkled the, the blood. He sprinkled the book, and he also sprinkled the audience with the blood of the bull. Now did you get what I said? Moses wrote down what He said. Then, you don’t begin with the commandments in Genesis, so Genesis can’t be the first book. How about that? Never, never get up on it at all.

Now, Dr. Pat Mathess talked about that Yahshua the Messiah begin at Moses, and then all the prophets. I want to say something else to you, now. Now, pay attention. In the Genesis, the book of Genesis, all the way through it from start to finish, Moses’s name is not in it. Now, how about that? His name is not in it at all. How do you know whether he wrote it or not? How can you tell whether he did write it or not? His name is not in it, not on it nowhere. Now, I wouldn’t advise you to go out and ask every preacher you see about this. (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) I wouldn’t advise you to do that.

Now, then, Moses then went up into the midst of the cloud, after he had dedicated, and he said to the people, he said, ‘Now this is the covenant which Yahweh.’5 Exodus 24:8 KJV If you want to read it, I’ll let you read it in there. ‘…which Yahweh, our Elohim, has enjoined unto us.’ Now, listen, folks. Now, that was before he saw the vision of the creation. Now, here’s another deep one, now. Now, Yahshua the Messiah begins with Moses. Now, if He begins with Moses, He can’t begin with the creation.


5 Exodus 24:8

Now then, here’s where Moses first gets in contact with Him is at the burning bush, that is Elohim at the burning bush. That’s where he saw Him at. Moses saw Him. Now, Moses had slew this Egyptian out here.

Here’s something else, now. You can just blunder and stumble along, just stumble along, and make all kinds of errors and mistakes, and unaware. That’s the reason why Yahweh has to give you somebody that has had some contact with Him. The only reason I… I’m not capable of teaching, it’s the Holy Spirit that’s the teacher. Me, as a man, I’m just a, I’m just a man. Got no business running around boasting about how smart I am. No, I’m just champion of the idiots. If I hadn’t been, Yahweh couldn’t have told me a thing.

But now, Moses, he slew this Egyptian down here in Egypt, and then he went out there and stayed 40 years in the wilderness.6 One day, in the evening, he was fixing to take his father, Jethro’s Ruel, sheep on back in, and he saw this burning bush on the backside of the mountain, and so he turned aside to see that great sight, and he walked up to that burning bush, and Yahweh told him don’t come no further.

‘Moses, Moses…’ Now look, there’s something else in there now you need to see. Yahweh knew Moses’s name. And He called him by Moses, by his name Moses, while you run around and you pretend there ain’t nothing to a name. If He hadn’t a called him by name, identified Moses by his name, if He called somebody else, why then Moses wouldn’t have paid no attention to that. He would know good and well He wasn’t talking to him. Now, if Moses’s name is all that particular, well what do you think about Yahweh! There’s no one knew His name. Now, before then, (now, listen to what I’m going to say) now, before then, remember, I told you that Moses’s name was not in the book of Genesis at all. And Yahweh called him by his name. ‘Moses, Moses…’ In other words, stop, take off your shoes off your feet. Why for? Because the place on the ground where you stand is holy ground. That’s holy ground. Right? Now, He’s communicating with Moses.

Now, I’m taking shortcuts now. I don’t wanna go into a whole lot of detail. So, He told Moses about coming back down here, and bringing the Children of Israel out with him. Now, Moses wanted to know where He was going to be. And He said, ‘Certainly, I will be with you. Certainly I will…’ Now, look here. Read the 28th chapter of Matthew, and the 19th and 20th verse. Now, I’m showing you how people, we just got through talking about baptism, I’m just showing you how stupid people are. And they just think they’re smart. They don’t know why Yahshua the Messiah said to them what He said there in the 28th chapter, talking about the great commission. Read.

Dr. Harris: Go ye therefore,

Dr. Kinley: Go ye therefore,


6 Exodus 3

Dr. Harris: and teach all nations,

Dr. Kinley: and teach all nations,

Dr. Harris: baptizing them in the name of the Father,

Dr. Kinley: baptizing them in the name of the Father,

Dr. Harris: and of the Son,

Dr. Kinley: and of the Son,

Dr. Harris: and of the Holy Spirit.

Dr. Kinley: and of the Holy Spirit.

Dr. Harris: Teaching them to observe all things

Dr. Kinley: Teaching them to observe all things

Dr. Harris: whatsoever I have commanded you:

Dr. Kinley: whatsoever I have commanded you:

Dr. Harris: and, lo,

Dr. Kinley: and, lo,

Dr. Harris: I am with you alway.

Dr. Kinley: I am with you alway. Now, that idiot, he done forgot about that. And he don’t know why He said that to ‘em. Now, He had to say that to ‘em, because He told Moses that He would be with him alway, when He sent him down here. That right? Said, ‘where you gonna…?’ Certainly I’ll be with you! Now what was the…


Dr. Kinley: How about that? Can you see that now? Said, lo, I am with you alway, from here on up and to Palestine, I’m gonna be with you every jump of the way, not only that, even unto the end of the age. Now, this age hasn’t ended yet! It ended in 1960, but what I’m talking about, and what I’m trying to show you is this. He is with you now. Say, ‘Well, I don’t see Him.’ (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) How about that? Oh, I tell you, it’s terrible. Don’t it sound kinda stupid for Him to say that He’s gonna be with the apostles always, even to the end of this age, knowing good and well they’re gonna die. I tell you, Yahweh’s miffed. Yahweh’s miffed. I mean alway, even unto the end of the age. Every minister, everyone that Yahweh ever sent, He’s with them.

And then, I wanna tell you something else. Now, He identified Moses and called him by name. Said, ‘Moses, Moses’. Called him by name. Now watch this one.

Now, Moses is out in the wilderness. And Moses argued around there. Yahweh says, ‘What’s that you got in your hand?’ And he said, ‘a rod.’ ‘Throw it on the ground.’ And it turned into a serpent. And He told Moses to take it up by the tail, and he did, and it was back into a rod again.


Dr. Kinley: Now, when… Now, the reason… I’m going to skip, now. I’m going to skip. Now, when he gets down here before Pharaoh and them, same rod throws it down, and Moses’s rod devoured Jannes’s and Jambres’s rods, and they turned to a serpent. And Moses’s rod or serpent swallowed up Jannes’s and Jambres’s. Those were Pharaoh’s men. Got that now? Then Moses picked it up. Now, look. Looks like we’d learn somewhere along the line. Then, he goes on out, and then he gets to the Red Sea. Then we got to have the rod again. He’s crying unto Yahweh. Says, ‘What’s that you got in your hand there?’ See how quick and easy we forget? He wasn’t thinking nothing about no rod, holding no rod out over no Red Sea. He forgot about these two things back there. He done forgot all about it. (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) Said, ‘What’s that you got in your hands?’ (BELL RINGS) Oh, mercy. Time’s expired. Well, I was just trying my best to show you some of the deep things that, that people overlook. And I’m gonna tell you about this one. I’m gonna tell you about this one, even if they have rung the bell.

He knew Moses, and He told Moses that, that he was the Elohim of his father, and of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He went on back there, and He brought Isaac and Jacob. He knew their names. All right, now, that’s… He’s talking to Moses at the burning bush. Now listen. Moses complained about his impediment of speech; and He asked him who made man’s mouth.

So, He told him now, get this one now, because you don’t hear much about this. He told Moses, not only did He know Moses, but He said He was gonna give him Aaron. Now, here He knows his father, knows Moses, He knows Aaron. He knows every, He knows everybody. Gonna give you Aaron, your brother. And his brother come out here, to this place at the burning bush and met him, back, back there on, on the back of the mountain. Aaron met him here. He didn’t go over here in whatchamacallit, in Midian, the land of Midian. He met him at the mountain, right here, right back there at that same place. That is to say, he come back there. Now, look. Now, there’s Moses at the burning bush, and he is seeing this angel in this burning bush or that flaming bush. Now, I brought that up to show you this. See, you wouldn’t think of it in a million years, unless somebody told it to you. Now, here is Moses at the burning bush, and he is seeing this vision at the burning bush. Now, on this side, right here, there is this same messenger, that was in the burning bush, the angel or the messenger. There’s the same messenger down here talking to Moses’s counterpart. That is to say, He’s down here talking to John the Baptist’s father, behold the same conditions. And here’s John, Zechariah, the angel Gabriel spoke to him at the burning bush or the golden altar of  incense, and told him about the birth of John the Baptist.7 Now, that’s almost unbelievable, and, fact of the matter is, Zechariah didn’t believe it. So then, he was smitten dumb, until that child was born. And they asked him, says, ‘What’s his name?’ Said, ‘Yahcanan.’ That’s John, in Hebrew. That’s the first time he spoke.

Now, I’d like awful well, but that the time has expired. I’d like awful well to just to show you something else about that, which, I had to bring all that up in order to show you this. Now, you see him out here in the wilderness at the burning bush out there in the Holy Place. And he comes right down into Egypt. Now, here’s the burning bush here, and you have to come down to the altar here. Now, here He is, He is the intercessor here. He’s in the Holy Place. Now, this same place, one, two, this same place, is where He gave, ate that supper at that night, where they ate the supper. After He rose up from the supper, and rose the disciple’s feet, washed the disciple’s feet in the upper room.8

But, now, the Holy Spirit wasn’t poured out yet, but they’re in the upper room, and He went right back up there in the upper room, after He resurrected from the dead. Now, this is what I’m showing. Now, when He’s in the upper room with His disciples, eating that supper… Suppose you look at Revelations 11:8. I just wanna show you that that supper is all the way around, every which away, Garden of Eden, and everywhere.

Now, He sent Moses back down here. Now, Yahshua at that supper, when He had finished that supper with His disciples, here He is here. You got to have your blood, and your water, and then the spirit. Always. You can’t do nothing else but blood, and water, and the spirit. Now, then, at that supper, He told them about that 17th chapter of Saint John, at the supper. Now, read what you got there, and then somebody pick up the 18th chapter of John, the 18th chapter and begin with the 1st verse.

Dr. Harris: Revelations 11:8.

Dr. Kinley: Revelations 11:8.

Dr. Harris: And their dead bodies

Dr. Kinley: And their dead bodies shall lie in the street

Dr. Harris: of the great city,

Dr. Kinley: of the great city,

Dr. Harris: which spiritually


7 Luke 1:11-25

8 John 13:4-17

Dr. Kinley: Now this is… Now, that’s why we mess up. …which spiritually is called

Dr. Harris: Sodom and Egypt,

Dr. Kinley: Sodom and Egypt. Now, Egypt is down here, and Sodom is up here around the Dead Sea. One of them in the Holy Land, and the other one down here in Egypt. So, it’s that all the way through. Read.

Dr. Harris: where also our Savior was crucified.

Dr. Kinley: Now, now you know good and well, your Savior was crucified at a place outside the walls there, a place called the skull, right outside the walls. And yet, when He was crucified, He was crucified down here, in Sodom and in Egypt, spiritually so. And not only that, He was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. How’m I doing? Am I doing all right?

Now, He said to His disciples there, who really were in the upper, upper, upper room, at that supper, He told them, the 17th chapter of John, that, that He prayed there. That’s, that’s, now that’s, that’s Yahweh Elohim’s or Yahshua’s prayer. Now then, that’s the 17th chapter. Now go on down to the 18th chapter and the 1st verse.

Dr. Harris: When Yahshua had spoken these words,

Dr. Kinley: Now, when Yahshua had spoken these words,

Dr. Harris: He went forth with His disciples

Dr. Kinley: He went forth with His disciples

Dr. Harris: over the brook Kedron,

Dr. Kinley: over the brook Kedron,

Dr. Harris: where there was a garden,

Dr. Kinley: where there was a garden,

Dr. Harris: into which He entered,

Dr. Kinley: into which He entered,

Dr. Harris: and His disciples.

Dr. Kinley: He and His disciples, after He spoke those words. Now, then, the words that He spake there, is in the 17th… that’s His prayer, there in the 17th chapter. Now, listen. Now, watch what I’m saying now. Here’s that deep one. Right back at it. He had to go right straight back up there to the same place, where He went with, with His disciples. He had to go back to that same place where He ate that supper, after His resurrection. Now, He was back there again. Now, here’s what I’m telling you. He is back now with them, right in the same place that he ate in the supper.

Now, within you, He is the intercessor, or the Holy Spirit in you that’s doing the praying. And while… then I’m ending. While the Children of Israel was on the outside, three tribes on each side, making up the twelve, while it was the 9th hour, and 12 o’clock at Noon, and 3 o’clock in the afternoon, three times in that day, was called the hour of prayer, that he was burning incense, the High Priest was burning incense in here, at that, at the hour of prayer. And they didn’t have the Holy Spirit, so then, He says, Yahshua says this: I will pray the Father for you, meaning He is the intercessor. He don’t pay no attention to nobody but His Son. Now then, they was on the outside around here praying, and the incensor was burning, took the place of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit makes the intercession for us now, and He is a quickening spirit in you, making the intercession for you. Do you understand it, David?

All I’m saying is this. You’re right back in the same place, right back in the same place. There isn’t any other way to go but right up and down this pattern. There isn’t any other way to go. This takes up heaven and earth and every other thing. There’s nowhere else to go. Follow that now? So now, we, up there, He’s out in the Garden of Gethsemane, now… Now, if you look in the 26th chapter of Matthew, and the 36th verse, then I’m done.

Now, when He told them, when He was up there, during that supper, He said now, this is my blood of the New Covenant. Drink ye all of it. He broke the bread. He said, take eat. This is my body, which is broken… Is that what He said? Now, He gave them the cup. Now, do you actually know the actual words that He said out there in the garden? In other words, this is what I’m saying. He said the same words out there in the garden that He said at the supper. Father, if this be Thy will, in the garden, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless, not My will, but Thy will be done. In other words, the garden… Now, now get this one straight. They come up out of Egypt, cross over the Red Sea, and went into the wilderness. Is that right? Now, then, they came down from the house where they ate the supper, crossed over the brook Kedron, is that right? Is that what you read? Read it again, 18th chapter, 1st verse.

Reader: When Yahshua had spoken these words, He went forth with His disciples over the brook Kedron,

Dr. Kinley: Uh huh.

Reader: where was a garden,

Dr. Kinley: Uh huh.

Reader: into the which He entered, and His disciples.

Dr. Kinley: Yes, that’s right. Now, you see Him and His disciples. Now, you have to get the 26th chapter of Matthew. I didn’t want to have you to read all that. You have to get the 26th chapter of Matthew, and about the 36th verse, and you’ll find that He’s entered into the Garden of Gethsemane, and in the Garden of Gethsemane, He is praying there. He says, Father, if it be Thy will, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless, not My will, but Thy will be done.9 Then about that time, here comes Judas with his torches, and his lights and things, and that gang. Is that right? You follow? Now then, that means this. ____ drove him out of the garden, Adam, here comes Judas and the Devil, in the garden obviously, and the sun was going down, that was night, He’s out there, and said them same words. Now, this blood is always on the bottom, so then let this cross pass from me, but nevertheless not My will, but Thy will be done. That’s what He’s praying there in the garden, and He’s saying the same thing in the garden that He was saying at the supper. Now, that’s what I was trying to point out to you. Take this cup and drink. Now, if it be Thy will, let this cup pass from Me, nevertheless, not My will but Thy will be done. It’s an intercession that He was making.

Oh, I tell you, it’s great to know Yahweh! And listen, you ain’t gonna unravel this Book, unless someone come along that Yahweh sent to show you.




9 Matthew 26:39

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