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10) 1966/1967: COME OUT OF BABYLON

(also known as: COME ON UP, JOHN)


by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley


recorded by Dr. Carl F. Gross on reel to reel recorder

audio cassette recording received from Cynthia Payne

1 90 minute audio cassette


Catalog #: 67CB


ranscribed by Shannon Brewster

first proofreading: Michael Rothstein

second proofreading: Geraldine Rothstein

final proofreading: International Public Relations Committee

approved by the International Public Relations Committee: 1997



1. .., indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.

2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.

3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, see, you see, you see what I mean, you follow, is that right.)

4. indicates an inaudible word or syllable

5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber

Dr. Kinley:  Thank you ever so much.  I wanna give my little testimony and tell you that I am indeed happy and glad to be here.  To talk with you and to commune with you about the things that be of God.  Now I listened at the testimonies of the others this morning.  I requested that they have a testimony.  Now that’s what I’m fixing to do, I’m fixing to give you my testimony, Dr. Harris has given you yours.  And you had an opportunity to give yours.  So everybody in the place had a opportunity to preach that wanted to preach or speak or tell you about it.  And it is by their testimony that they overcome.  Now if you set there and missed your opportunity, don’t blame nobody but yourself.

Now this is what I wanna get down to.  First of all, I noticed that a good many of you talked about the churches.  The churches:  plural.  And now, some people resent you talking about the churches.  And will tell you so to your face.  And as we have told you many time, often times people walk up to you and say, ‘Well what church do you belong to?’  Now they’re totally unconscious that they’ve asked you a fool question.  Paul said, foolish and unlearned questions avoid because they do gender or stir up strife.  Now you oughta avoid asking anybody what church they belong to if you are wise enough and conscious enough to see that there isn’t but one church.  Get the point?  Now that’s real, true, divine, etymological, that means original.

And I wanna tell you this about that church that often makes people sore and caused a lot of confusion and strife.  Now there’s nobody joining no church.  Now you don’t get in The Church that way.  Now how do you get in The Church?  You are born in it, just like you got in your family.  You didn’t join it.  Didn’t no.., your parents didn’t, they didn’t invite you in.  You just.., you know how you got in there. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Now listen, we’re after down right, hard down facts.  That’s what we’re after.  That’s what this school was established for:  to tell you the truth, and the truth like it is irrespective and regardless…  Somebody said, ‘Well you hurt my feelings.’  I can’t help it I have to tell the truth.  You got your feelings hurt.  Its better to have your feelings hurt, hurt now than it is for you to be hurting, gone to hell later on.  What’s the matter with you?  Eternal destruction is nothing to be compared with you getting your feelings hurt.  You get the point?  It’s wonderful.  It’s really wonderful.  Now the devil just don’t like you talking about them things.  The churches.

Now listen.  I’m gonna tell you plain, flat-footed.  Christendoom is wrong period.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  And I don’t have no apologies to make for it.  And I’m capable and qualified to prove it.  And I dare you, double-dare anybody to challenge me.  Done it for 35 years and every last one that’s ever done it had to go on down.  Bishops, Cardinals, and everything else.  I didn’t come for somebody to argue with me or argue with you.  I come to tell you what’s right about it.  Listen, God did send me.  I proved it to you that He did.  I won’t ask you to believe it.  And it’s immaterial to me whether you believe it or not.  I’ll put it like the Messiah put it.  He said to the Jews, He didn’t come to be ministered unto.  He come to minister.  He didn’t come to ask their permission about what he should do.  He didn’t need their instruction to the Sanhedrin Council.  Isn’t that right?

Student Body:  That’s right.

Dr. Kinley:  ‘What did you.., where did you come from?’  He said He come from above.  ‘Well what did you come here for?’  ‘To do My Father’s will.’  Have to use a little psychology, divine psychology once in awhile.  That old carnal minded Sanhedrin Council, just like the old carnal minded hypocrite preachers out here in these churches.  Now if you don’t like that, forget about it, just get up and go on home.  It’s all right with me.  Messiah said this.  Now listen at what I’m gonna say to you.  This is what I’m gonna say to you.  Now in His day or in His time there was a pharisee, that’s a sect.  There was a sadducee, that’s a sect.  There was a scribe, that’s a sect.  There was a Essenes, that’s a sect.  There was a Nazarene, that’s a sect.  You get what I’m talking about?  Just like the sects you got out here now ____ ____ out in them churches.  And He said, listen at me, He said, ‘I come to do the will of My Father.’  I want you to understand and I’m telling you to your feet, never sent no preacher to build no church.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  That’s not even in the almanac, to say nothing about the Bible.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Yes I know folks get sore about them things.  He said upon this rock, I will build, not Bishop Short, not Henry C. Kinley.  I don’t have no church to invite you into.  And then somebody got up and said, ‘Well I’m gonna open the door to this church this morning.’  Now that’s the devil.  Now that’s the devil.  ‘Now why did you say that?’  Cause the Messiah said, ‘Behold I set before you an open door and no man can close it.’  What are you doing standing up there talking about you’re opening the doors of the church? (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) That’s the Mount Sion Baptist Church on John St. in Cincinnati, Ohio, call itself preaching against us.  Got up and open, throwed up his hands and said he’s opening the doors of the church.  Dropped dead right there on the floor.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Everybody in Cinc… ever come from Cincinnati knows it.  Now here we want you to know what The Church is.  Now here in Acts of Apostles.  Get Acts of Apostles.  This is what he said.  The second chapter of Acts of Apostles.  I want you to just notice one thought there.  Then I wanna correlate it with what He said in Matthew the 16th chapter, that upon this rock I will build My Church.  In Acts of Apostles it said, the Lord, the Lord, you heard me you’re not blind, I said the Lord added to the church daily them that should be saved.  You wasn’t involved in it.  Then He didn’t add nothing in that church that was wrong, no sinners, not the first one.  None, not no good and bad, no, none of that.  Lord don’t make mistakes like that.  He added to the church daily.

Now what, now the next thing we need to know something about it.  What is the Church?  Before we gonna know what we’re talking about.  Now for you to say something to Apostle Paul and to the rest of the apostles, any one of ‘em, they wouldn’t know what you’re talking about when you said church.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  That’s incorrectly translated in your Book.  Now the true, divine, etymological or original meaning of the word church is congregation or assembly.

Student Body:  That’s right.

Dr. Kinley:  Yes, indeed, that’s it.  Now look to take the actual true meaning of the word, which we always do.  We’re after the reality of it here.  If you take congregation or assembly, that’s the real meaning of it.  Now David said this, many were in the congregation back here, many were in the congregation that were not saved.  Many of ‘em was in that, He was very polite about it.  A little more politer than the Messiah was when He come along.  He said, ‘now I didn’t come to call the righteous,’ there’s your divine psychology, ‘but sinners to repentance.’ Sanhedrin Council stuck their chest out said, ‘let Him alone.  He didn’t come to call us.’ (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) ____ set up ____ ____, set up in the Sanhedrin Council.

‘What Sanhedrin Council?’  I mean the 70 elders, ‘just let Him alone, said that they that are sick they’re the ones need a physician, them that are well, they don’t need no physician.’  Said, ‘let Him alone, take up, take the sick on down there to Him.’  They went to Him with more of that psychology, said, ‘Good Master?’  Said, ‘why you call Me good?  There’s none good but God.’  Right?

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Said, ‘now I..,’ let me repeat this.  That He didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.  ‘Let Him alone.’  Now if you’re gonna listen at all these people down out there in these congregations and assemblies, you won’t find nobody out there, much but that don’t say that they’re saved.  Everybody’s Christian.  Very seldom do you ever get a sinner. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Its hard to get anybody to even say that they are.  And they’re having an awful time getting this congregation to grow up.  Not withstanding the man in the pulpit is a sinner.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Unconscious of it.  Unless, as Dr. Harris told you, unless you go to the law and to the testimony, verified and confirmed one thing with the other, that man standing in that pulpit is a sinner.  Now I’m gonna make myself clear.  ‘I didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.’  Said, ‘let Him alone, He didn’t come to call us.’  ‘Why didn’t He come to call us?’  ‘Cause we’re righteous, He come to call sinners to repentance, that’s what He said.’  Well now if they had went to the law and looked in the law and in the prophets…  If they had did that, and in the prophets…  This is what it said there.  ‘There is none righteous, no not a one.’  It’s good they didn’t look in that scripture. (DR. KINLEY AND THE STUDENT BODY LAUGH) Now then look, if there was any righteous then righteousness would have been by the law and there wouldn’t been any need of Him coming.  Is that right?

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Now listen folks.  Now you are saved by the blood.  You are saved by His life, and without the shedding of blood or without His offering.  And not just a man hanging out there on a tree either.  I don’t mean that.  Lotta people think that’s what it means, but it don’t.  He said He offered Himself to God, listen at me, through the eternal spirit, this wasn’t a man hanging out there on a tree.  That wasn’t the way it was.  And that was a sacrificial body that was prepared by all of the God that exists.  That’s what that was.  The Jews, they looked at Him as a man, but that’s what it was.  Now let me get into the crux and we can close this out.  Let me get into the crux and close it out.

Now in order to find out what I’m talking about, I want to read into, in the 18th chapter of Revelation.  I want you to…  And tell you what I am.  I want you to see that I resent, I want you to see that it is my job to talk about these hell-holes.  These so-­called churches.  That’s my job.  That’s what I come for.  Just like He come, and when He got around to it, the Messiah, when He got around to it…  You got a Bible.  When it come time for Him to die out there on the cross, went right back to them same people, the Sanhedrin Council, stood up before ‘em, them that thought they were righteous, them that thought His coming in the world didn’t concern them.  And He said to ‘em, said, ‘you hypocrites, you…’


I want you to know that.  And Satan is the pastor, and his imps, and they are here in the world.  Now I didn’t say that.  Don’t blame that on to me.  18th chapter of Revelations.  Here’s John out on the Isle of Patmos.  Alright read.

Dr.  Harris:  And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven having great power;

Dr. Kinley:  And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven.  Read on, I…

Dr. Harris:  Having great power; and the earth was lighted with his glory.  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying Babylon the great is fallen,

Dr. Kinley:  Babylon.  Babylon the Great is fallen.  Listen, you know just as well as I do that God’s people were in captivity in Babylon.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  You know just as well as I do that the word Babylon itself means confusion.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  I don’t have to testify to you and tell you that this church over here and that congregation or that.., all of it, they’re confusion.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Now he put that in that book, Rip.  And that angel that come down.., and John saw, saw that scarlet-colored beast with them spots on it.  Now you know a leopard can’t change his spots.  And that women decked and arrayed that you’re reading about there, with blue, purple, and scarlet.  Why don’t you look around and see something about that blue, purple, and scarlet being in this temple, blue, purple, and scarlet, riding on a scarlet colored beast.  Leopard with spots on it.  That women setting there with the cup in her hand, riding on it.  That is the apostate church.

Student Body:  Alright.

Dr. Kinley:  Confusion.  That’s what makes up the Babylon out here.  Yes I know they resent me talking about it.  Somebody says, ‘Well I don’t believe in fighting other churches.’  I do. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Now listen, John when he looked and saw that, I want you to see, look at your condition and look at your shape.  John when he looked and saw that women sitting on that scarlet colored beast with those seven heads, and that cup in her hand.  He said, ‘I looked up on her with great admiration.’  You got it there in the Book.  And you and I, when we didn’t know no better, when we was in confusion and in Babylon, we looked up on whatsoever sect or cult we belonged to.  We looked up on it as great admiration, just like John said he looked upon it with great admiration.  Is that what you got in your Book there?

Student Body:  Yes.

Dr. Kinley:  And then after he looked up on it with great admiration.  Listen, he said he heard a voice from heaven saying, ‘Come up hither, John.’  You have to go on up in the spirit to understand what you’re looking at.  And then when you see it from above or in the spirit, elevated in the spirit so he can see what it is, then it won’t be so admir.., admirational.  She was the mother of harlots.  But he had to get on up yonder, you can’t see it from down here Rip.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Now then listen.  Listen at me.  John said, I have to cut it up short cause time is gone.  John said he heard that voice and he cried, ‘Babylon is fallen, she is fallen.’  Listen at me now.  ‘Come out of her my people!  Come out of her my people.’  What’s that for?  ‘That you be not be partaker of her sins and receive of her plagues.’  And nobody gonna stop me from crying, ‘Come out Babylon, come out of confusion.’  Deception, come out of that darkness.  Behold what Jeremiah said that get up out of ____.  Yeah, I say they look fine, but when you get on up in the spirit…

Now I’m gonna tell you why I said get on up in the spirit.  I’m gonna make that plain to you too.  As Habakkuk said in the second chapter, ‘write the vision, make it plain so that he can read, he that reads it can run.’  That you be not partaker…  Come out of her, that you be not partaker of her sins and receive of her plagues.  Wallace, listen at me.  Now you listen at me.  John had to go on up in the spirit before he could see.  Now I wanna show you that apostate church.  I wanna show you what made it apostate.  I wanna show you why it’s wrong and I wanna show it to you out there on every street around here.  And you can’t deny it to save your soul.  And I’m justified in telling you that God said come out of Babylon or confusion.  You got to know something definite.  You got to know something positive.  You got to know something concrete.  You gotta go on up in the spirit.  Now let me tell you what I mean now.  I’m fixing to tell you now.  And I wanna tell you in words you can understand too.  You won’t have to ponder about it.

Now this First Covenant stood in meats and drinks and diverse washings and carnal ordinances.  Hebrew 9 says so.  Said the first church or the first congregation and assembly stood, listen at me Freddie, it stood only in meats and drinks and diverse washings and carnal ordinance until the time of the reformation.  That is to say, that is to say, everything that that congregation or that assembly or that church…  Let’s repeat it.  Everything.., and there wasn’t nobody in it but Jews, unless you’re circumcised.  Everything they did, every ordinance, that God ____ gave ‘em something natural, carnal, physical.  It stood only in that.  Meats and drinks and diverse washings and carnal ordinances until the time of the reformation.

Messiah come and said don’t you think that I have come to destroy the law or the prophets, but I come to fulfill.  And truthfully, truthfully, or verily, verily, listen at me, that one jot or one tittle of the law and the prophets would not pass until it is all fulfilled.  Psalms said this and Saul so also in Hebrews, that he come.  Sacrifices and burnt offerings when they was offering ‘em up, sacrifices and burnt offerings thou wouldest not but a body has thou prepared for me.  And then said I, lo, I come in the volume of the Book as it written of Me to do Thy will O God, He taketh away the first that He might establish the second.  He took every last one of them carnal ordinances…  And when He bowed His head in the locks of His shoulders out on Golgotha, John 19:30, said, ‘Its finished.’  What’s finished?  I’m finished fulfilling the law and the prophets.  I’ve moved every last one of them carnal ordinances out of it and now we going on up in the spirit to which the natural pointed to.

Now here Christiandoom out here that don’t want nothing said about standing around talking transubstantiation.  Here Christiandoom is out there dragging somebody around in the water.  Here is Christiandoom out there washing somebody’s feet.  Here is Christiandoom out there practicing all of them natural things and they don’t want me to say nothing about it.  And I’m telling you to come out of that darkness.  That’s the spirit John took on.., John had to go on up the spirit to see that.  And that apostate church, Roman Catholicism, and Protestantism they resent you saying anything about it.  My job, I was sent to tell on ‘em, cause they ain’t doing nothing but practicing the things that was down under the law, it’s been fulfilled and moved out of the way.  And now we’ve come to the spirit of it.  And you have to go on up in the spirit.  Got to come on up out of that literal, that physical, that natural congregation and assembly.  Got to go on in to the general assembly and the church of the firstborn.  Got to come on away.  And now ____ ____ ____.  You got to come on up, as the Apostle Paul said, ye are not come, talking to the Jews back there in this dispensation on the Day of Pentecost.  Said, ‘you’re not come to the mount that might be touched.’  But if you’re not come to the mount that might be touched, then where you come to?  Said, ‘you’re come to God and you are come to the general assembly.’  You are come to innumerable.., or The Church of the firstborn and to an innumerable company of angels.  Now look that’s a type or that’s the body of the Messiah.  Now look what if…  What do you tell me what you look like standing around and offering Gabriel and Michael some crackers and, and some grape juice.

Student Body:  Alright doc.

Dr. Kinley:  You see what I’m talking about, don’t you Bishop?

Bishop Short:  Oh yes.

Dr. Kinley:  Yes indeed, you have to get on up in the spirit.  You have to get on away from that stuff.  Get your eyes open so you can tell the difference.

And yes I’m gonna talk about it, talk about it.  That’s all I’m…  Say look, I’m not talking about no personalities.  Judas Iscariot, so far as his fleshly body was concerned, it’s as good as yours and mine.  Every sin that a man commits, he commits it without the body.  I’m not talking about the body, I’m talking about the spirit in that body.  I’m telling you that them are devils that’s preaching this foolishness to you out there.  That is Babylon and that is confusion and you know yourself every which a way you go some hypocrite out there will tell you, say, ‘Listen Freddie,’ said, ‘you haven’t been baptized right.’  Dr. Gross here, if he don’t mind me mentioning his name, the president of the school, been baptized six or seven times.  Haven’t you Dr. Gross? (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) And there’s some others sitting out there have been baptized six or seven times.  Why?  Because them lying and hypocrite preachers they haven’t got up to it.  He said, ‘Well listen, your ceremonies or baptism wasn’t performed right.’  And every time one said that, we wanna be right.  In the water we jumped. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) And then when we went in and come out.  You went in dry and come out wet.  And so far as your conscience is concerned, you’re a liar if you say you’re conscience was transformed.  And then somebody said, ‘Well Jesus said he that calleth his brother a liar, a fool or a liar, is in danger of hell-fire,‘  Well I’m not talking to my brother.  (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS)  ____ ____ ____ ____. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) My brother knows I’m telling the truth. (THEY CONTINUE LAUGHING) See what I mean?  You get it?  Yes indeed, my brethren.  When that angel said, when John went to bow down to him, he said, ‘get up,’ said, ‘I’m just one of the brethren.  You worship God.’  Paul in the second chapter of Colossians…  I’m telling you folks.  Everybody just dib dabbing in these carnal ordinances that were on the other side of the cross over here.  They don’t know what it’s all about.  That’s Babylon.  That’s confusion.  And God is calling you out of it.  Listen, let me say this to you.  Messiah said.., He said it Freddy.  Don’t you think He meant what He said?

Fred Allen, Jr.:  Yes sir.

Dr. Kinley:  Now if you don’t think He said it, I’ll read.  Maybe you better read it and see.  Try reading it for awhile.  Then when you read it you let it alone.  John 4:23 and 24.  And you.., all I’m asking you to do, just let it alone.  Read it and we’ll get out on time and go on home.

Dr. Harris:  God is spirit

Dr. Kinley:  Now listen.  Messiah said that He proceedeth and come forth from the Father, from the visible part.  He said, ‘I know Him.’  Said, ‘we speak that we do know and testify that we have seen.’  And you can see by my witnesses.  Now I can say to them.., repeat what you just read.

Dr. Harris:  God is spirit.

Dr. Kinley:  God is spirit

Reader:  And they that worship him

Dr. Kinley:  And they that worship him

Dr. Harris:  must worship in spirit

Dr. Kinley:  Now that’s a must.  Bishop, in the 17th chapter of Acts of Apostles, the Apostle Paul told the Grecians that they ought not to think that God dwelled in temples made by hands. You running around here arguing about it?  Talking about you and your church down on the corner.  God does not dwell in temples made by hands.  Isn’t that right?

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  And neither is He worshiped with men’s hands. Now every time you come around telling me and you call yourself… (DR. KINLEY HITS SOMETHING REPEATEDLY ABOUT 14 TIMES) He don’t dwell in no temples made by hands.  And you ought not to think that the Godhead is wood or stone, but the Godhead is spirit.  And he came in the world seeking such, you read it, seeking.  That’s what He come seeking for somebody to worship Him in spirit and in the truth.  That’s what He’s seeking.  And you take this mess out of here.  Now if you want your feet washed, you go home and wash your own dirty feet.  Don’t stick ‘em up here for me to wash.  I’ll wash mine, you wash yours. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Somebody said, ‘he sure is blasphemous.’  No, that symbolized the washing of regeneration and Messiah was the Word of God and when He was washing their feet there, it was the Word of God that was washing their feet. And what did He do it for?  He’s fulfilling that because Moses brought Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu to the door of the tabernacle and washed their feet and put on the linen garment and anointed them with oil.  He’s fulfilling that.  He is the Word of God Himself and Paul looked at it, over here in the fifth chapter of Ephesians and he said this, ‘husbands love your wives even as Messiah also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it by the washing of the water by the Word, that He might present it unto Himself not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but it should be holy and without blemish, or without fault.  And the carnal minded preacher, he got the thing all twisted up and he thought that he was talking about a man and his wife.  No, no such a thing.  And then the last two verses he says this, said, ‘this is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.’  Now what I’m preaching and teaching you the Word of God, it’s the washing of regeneration.  Washing.  It’s the Word that’ll cleanse you.  And that stuff you got down there literally so and naturally so you go home and wash your own dirty feet.  When the Messiah was washing the disciples’ feet, Peter said, ‘You’ll never wash my feet.’  He said, ‘if I don’t wash ‘em, you won’t have no part with Me.’  Said, ‘not only my feet, but just give me a bath, I’ll just put ‘em ____.’  You won’t no parts of me.  Now listen, this is what He’s saying.  Said, ‘now, you don’t know what I’m doing now.’  But listen, he did know, but Peter did know that He was washing feet.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  But what He meant by what He said, he didn’t know the meaning of it.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  ‘But,’ He said, ‘ye shall know hereafter.’  When the man got the Holy Ghost, then he understood.  That’s it was the washing of the regeneration by the Word of God.  And that that I preached to you is cleaning you up.  Its the Word of God.  To the Law and to the Testimony and if that doesn’t sanctify and cleanse you and wash you up, I’ll guarantee that that basin of water down there ain’t gonna do you no good.  And you drag it through both the Pacific and the Atlantic Oceans and it will not translate your mind.

Now how did you get in The Church?  We said that He said upon this rock I will build.  The devil out there call hisself building churches and he bragged and boasted about it.  Said, ‘I built one over yonder and I built one over there and I’ve also built one down yonder.’  Bragging about it.  Writing about it, what all they done.  I tell you it’s something else.  Now said, ‘upon this rock I’ll build my church and the very gates of hell shall not prevail against it.’  And you know just as well as I do, don’t you set there and lie to yourself and don’t try to lie to me cause I was assistant pastor for a long…  And everything, assistant pastor ____ ____ ____ in all the churches I’ve ever gone to, they couldn’t get along.  Now you’re telling me the very gates of hell shall not prevail against it.  Now you got a lock on the door down there. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) You’ve got it closed up and the courts trying to get it open.  Trying to reconcile.  Now you want me to believe that’s The Church and you’re around, standing around arguing with me about it.  What kind of a fool do you think I am? 1 Corinthians 12:13.   Now I’ll show how He gets you in there.

Dr.  Harris:  For by one spirit

Dr. Kinley:  For by one spirit.  Say Wallace, it was.., didn’t say water.  Read.

Dr. Harris:  For by one spirit

Dr. Kinley:  For by one spirit.  Not two, three, but by one spirit.

Dr. Harris:  Are we all baptized

Dr. Kinley:  Are we all baptized

Dr. Harris:  into one body

Dr. Kinley:  into one body

Dr.  Harris:  whether we be Jews

Dr. Kinley:  Wait.  It don’t make no difference  ____ ____ ____, whether you be Jews or Gentiles.

Dr. Harris:  whether we be bond or free

Dr. Kinley:  whether we be bond or free

Dr. Harris:  and that all have been made to drink into one spirit

Dr. Kinley:  and that all have been made to drink into one spirit.  Now listen Wallace, could I just tell you just one more thing?  Could I just tell you this?  Would you suffer me.

Student Body:  Yes.

Dr. Kinley:  You don’t have opportunity to hear unless you come down here.


Dr. Kinley:  Now you listen at what I’m gonna say.  Alright read.

Dr.  Harris:  What shall we say then?

Dr. Kinley:  Now look here, if someone would come up to you Bishop Short and say, ‘what shall we say then?’  You’d think, ‘well what kind of a fool is that?’  You’d, you’d think he oughta be over yonder somewhere in Camarillo1 someplace.  He needs to be looked (locked?) up.  He needs to be confined in the iliomasoary or some psychopathic ward or some iliomasoary institution.  Get some protection, examined by a psychiatrist.  He’s nuts, in other words.  Mentally deranged.  You understand some of these words, don’t you?  You wouldn’t walk up to a man and say, ‘well what shall we say then?  What shall we say then?’  Would you?

Student Body:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Now you see the reason why I’m calling your attention to this is because that chapter is divided there.  You got the first verse of that sixth chapter.  Now as rule the devil he start like this, saying, ‘what shall we say then?’  And now you haven’t got the subject and the predicate together at all.


1 Camarillo is a mental institution.

Now if you went back up in the fifth chapter you would find about who the we is.  It’s talking about the Jews.  What shall the Jews say then?  What shall we, the Jews, say then?  Alright read.

Dr. Harris:    Shall we continue in sin,

Dr. Kinley:   Now listen at it.  Shall we continue in sin?

Dr.  Harris:   that grace may abound?

Dr. Kinley:   that grace may abound?

Dr. Harris:  God forbid.

Dr. Kinley:  God forbid.

Dr.  Harris:  How shall we

Dr.  Kinley:  How shall we, the Jews.

Dr. Harris:  that are dead to sin

Dr. Kinley:  that are dead to sin

Dr. Harris:  live any longer therein?

Dr. Kinley:  live any longer therein?

Dr.  Harris:  Know ye not

Dr. Kinley:  Don’t you know

Dr. Harris:  that so many of us

Dr. Kinley:  so many of us, the Jews

Dr. Harris:  as were baptized

Dr. Kinley:  that was baptized at John’s water baptism of repentance before He died.  So they didn’t baptize no Gentiles.  John didn’t baptize no Gentiles.  Well why didn’t he baptize no Gentiles.  Look here.  All of these that come out of Egypt that was baptized in the cloud and the sea, they was all Jews.  And if there wasn’t…  and He’s fulfilling it.  So then if He’s gonna fulfill it and there wasn’t no Gentiles in that, there can’t be none in this.  Now so many of us that were baptized into Jesus Christ.

Dr. Harris:  were baptized into his death

Dr. Kinley:  therefore they had to be baptized before He died in order to be baptized into His death.  Freddy, are you listening?  We are preaching that Christ raised from the dead.  You can’t baptize nobody into His death now.  Them preachers out there don’t understand.  Read on.

Dr. Harris:  Therefore we

Dr. Kinley:  Now therefore

Dr. Harris:  we are buried with him

Dr. Kinley:  we are buried with him

Dr. Harris:  by baptism into death:

Dr. Kinley:  by baptism into death:

Dr. Harris:  that like as Christ was raised up

Dr. Kinley:  that like as Christ was raised up

Dr. Harris:  from the dead

Dr. Kinley:  from the dead

Dr. Harris:  by the glory of the Father,

Dr. Kinley:  by the glory of the Father,

Dr. Harris:  even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Dr. Kinley:  even so we also should walk in the newness of life.  Now that’s what Paul is saying.  Now if you’re reading there, you’re reading Romans, ain’t you?  Now Romans are Gentiles, Bishop.  Now Paul is not writing no letter to no Romans.  He’s writing it to the Jews that’s left up to Rome, to preach the gospel to the Romans.  Every last one of them epistles.  And he’s sending it there and he’s telling them Jews that are up there at Rome.  You definitely gotta preach the gospel.  Don’t you know, you Jews, that is as many of us, the Jews, as was baptized into Jesus Christ, was baptized into His death.  Therefore, John had to bury ‘em by baptism before they, before He died, in order to baptize ‘em into His death.  Said, ‘therefore that we should rise to walk in the newness of life.’  The Jews.  ‘Therefore what shall we say then?  How shall we that are dead…’  Who?  The Jews, that was dead.  ____ ____.  Well don’t you know?  You’re supposed to know. ____ ____ ____ supposed to be teaching the Gentiles, don’t you know that?  Get the point?  Alright read on.

Dr. Harris:  For if we

Dr. Kinley:  Watch.  Watch the curve.

Dr. Harris:  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his

Dr. Kinley:  If, listen, for if we have been planted.  How you feel?

Dr. Gross:  Okay.

Dr. Kinley:  Listen.  You don’t have no history, there’s no history in the world that shows that the Gentiles ever was planted in any water.  So it’s just got to be talking about the Jews.  You heard me Bishop.  They were planted, and I don’t mean sprinkled, I mean planted, just like you plant beans and corn and stuff.  Put some dirt up over it.  Plant it.  Planted.  Now look, the Gentiles wasn’t planted.  They was grafted in.  How did that happen?  By faith.  Alright, read.

Dr.  Harris:  we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Dr. Kinley:  we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection, read.

Dr. Harris:  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

Dr. Kinley:  Knowing this, that our old man

Dr.  Harris:  is crucified with him

Dr. Kinley:  is crucified with him

Dr.  Harris:  that the body of sin might be destroyed

Dr. Kinley:  that the body of sin might be destroyed

Dr. Harris:  that henceforth we shall not serve

Dr. Kinley:  that from now on we shall not serve sin.  If you’re not gonna serve sin, what do you go running back and forth confessing to the priest for, if you’re not supposed be sinning.  He was manifested to make an end of sin.  Whosoever is born of God, they do not commit sin.  You can’t commit sin if you live in the spirit.  That don’t make sense.  Get the point?  Skip on down there, take the 11th.

Dr.  Harris:  Now then

Dr. Kinley:  Now then, here you come, here you come, the Gentiles.  He said, ‘now likewise.

Dr. Harris:  reckon ye

Dr. Kinley:  No, don’t go do it, Doc.  No sir, don’t go do it.  Just reckon … just reckon.  Likewise.  Now just like that, just like happened to the Jews, you Gentiles, you reckon yourselves

Dr.  Harris:  to be dead

Dr. Kinley:  to be dead, indeed, unto sin.

Dr. Harris:  but alive unto God

Dr. Kinley:  but alive unto Christ

Dr. Harris:  our Lord

Dr. Kinley:  the Lord.  Listen here.  Abraham, God told Abraham to offer up Isaac. And Abraham, so says Paul in the 11th chapter of Hebrews, Paul says that Abraham did offer up.  Somebody says, ‘well he was going to, but he caught the ram in the thicket.’  No, I beg your pardon.  That didn’t happen that way.  In his mind, before he got to the ram in the thickets.  In his mind.  He accounted in his mind, just like you are supposed to account, in your mind.  Just like the Jews was.  You account.  Don’t go do it, but account it in your mind.  Reckon yourselves.  Likewise, Abraham accounted in his mind, that God had told him to offer him up.  As far as Abraham was concerned he was a goner, because he offered him up.  Accounting in his mind that God was able to raise him from the dead, that his posterity and his seed might sojourn.  But Paul, Paul said he did offer him up.  It was executed in his mind.  And just like I’m telling you about this execution in your mind.  You account it.

Now here’s why I said it.  Let me say this to you Wallace.  Now in the second chapter of Colossians folks, don’t be impatient with me, in the second chapter of Colossians.  Now you, everybody, and I’m talking about everybody, and when I say everybody, I do mean everybody.  Everybody was circumcised by the circumcision of Messiah.

Student Body:  That’s right.

Dr. Kinley:  Everybody was baptized in the water by His baptism.  Everybody.  That’s you too.  Even the unborn generations.  And you say that The Church is the Body of Christ.  Is that what you say?  And if the church is the body of Christ, this is physical back here and this is His physical body here.  So you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands.  Wherein, in Colossians, you are also buried by baptism with Him.  Wherein also you are risen with Him.  Look, no hands.  No, no hands.  Got baptized, all of it, by Him.  He’s the savior.  All of the works and everything is fulfilled, is done.  All the natural, all the literal, all the carnal, all the physical, all the natural.  Behold, you despised, wonder and perish, I’ll work a work in your days that you shall not believe, though a man…  He did all of the work, just like God did all the work in making all the necessary preparations for Adam after He took him out of the ground and put him in the Garden of Eden.  The trees was in fruition.  He had something to eat.  God did all the work.  He created and everything and put everything there.  And we are created anew in Christ Jesus.  What the hypocrite preachers they can’t see nothing spiritual.  They can’t see that the literal pointed to the spiritual.  That’s the reason why Dr. Harris said to you all that might be known, known what?  Romans 1:19, 20.  All that might be known of everything you wanna know, it don’t make no difference what it is you that you wanna know.  All that may be known of God, it’s possible for you to know, for God manifested, He showed it unto them.  He showed it unto them in visions and revelations.  Everything, showed Moses clear on into Omega, and He took John on the Isle of Patmos and He showed him clear on back into Alpha.  It’s hard for you to know everything.  And Paul said in the second chapter of 1 Corinthians, said the spirit searches all things, yea the deep things of God.  ____ ____ ____.  You wanna know anything about the thing you ask me, because I been called up there and heard things almost impossible for a man to utter, but I’ll give it to you some kinda way and if I can’t do it one way, I’ll do it another.  Yes indeed, down here we know all the answers.  We know what’s in heaven.  We know all about it.  We know what’s in the earth.  We know what’s in you.  We know what’s in everything.  We got all the answers to all the questions, all the esoteric secrets, those that are hidden secrets ____ become ____.  Yes indeedyIts not old me, it’s my Father in me that doeth the works.  And when I tell you there’ll be an earthquake, or when I tell you that Pope John 23 had to go the day that he had to go, had to go.  And when I told you about these various different things, even Roosevelt when he had to go.  I told you about John F. Kennedy when he had…  I’ve known everything!  I know everything and I know everybody, I’ve been everywhere, and I see everything ____ both in heaven and earth.  And so you wanna know anything about my Father back here, just ask me, and I can tell you all about it.  Let’s go home.



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