12) 1967: EXPLANATION OF HEBREWS 1:1
by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley
1 100 minute audio cassette
Catalog#: 67 H
transcribed by Shannan Brewster
first proofreading: Michael Rothstein
second proofreading: Gerry Rothstein
third proofreading: International Public Relations Committee
approved by the International Public Relations Committee: 1997
Moderator: … founder and dean of the school, Dr. Henry C. Kinley. Dr. Kinley.
Dr. Kinley: Thank you. I’m always happy and glad to be here. I feel, as David said ____ speaking, I was glad when they said unto me, let us go into the house of the Lord. He was glad. Then I remembered another expression of David’s. He said he never understood until he went in the sanctuary. And neither are you. I said you were. You’re supposed to come on in the sanctuary, it’s always good. Now there’s where all the treasures of wisdom, and knowledge and everything is hid, is within the sanctuary.
Now I wanna tell you some things today. And I thought about as Dr. Roland McCoy was speaking. Now in as much so as you see how he went about that to prove to you the things that he said. Now I want you to know that everybody.., now it just don’t make no difference. Now your color won’t fix it. And where you come from, it won’t fix it. Your background will not fix it, irrespected and regardless to all that. What your progenitors and ancestors believed, that will not fix it. Now what will fix it is one thing. And that is this: is when you come back here, take that purpose from alpha to omega, from beginning to end, from cosmology to eschatology, that means from origin or from start to finish. Now here, and here’s what it does: now it brings everybody from everywhere, all races, all nations, all kindreds, and all peoples, everybody see eye to eye and face to face and just about all speak the same thing; joined, perfectly joined together in the same spirit and there’s no friction, there’s no divisions among you. But as long as you don’t see that there can’t be nothing else but division. You can’t help yourself from being a skeptic. Until you see what it’s all about and how it works and how it goes together, there’s nothing else for you to be.
Now there’s another one in this job, in this business, too. And that is Satan. That’s this Mystery of Iniquity. Now his business is to keep you from seeing. It’s to blind your eyes and blind your mind so that you won’t see; in other words, he tries to keep you from seeing. And all the time, listen, all the time, all along, what Satan tries to make you believe, what he wants you to believe is that he is God. Now if he just wanted you to believe that much, and no more, that wouldn’t be quite so bad, but he wants to exalt himself above all that is worshiped or all that is called God so that he as God has the keys to kingdom. Everything, angels, and authorities, and powers, and everything being made subject unto him. Now that’s what’s going on in the world. Those are.., that’s that negative and that positive going on. Now if he don’t get you on one gimmick, he’ll get you on another, because he doesn’t, he don’t understand this secret, how it’s put together like this. It’s hid from him. And it’s, it’s hid from all the wise and the smart boys. You know, a lotta people like to boast about their background, and all that kinda thing. Well that won’t work in this thing. Your background is no good. Nobody ain’t reckoning nothing like that. It’s not a flesh and blood thing, it’s something else. What we’re after now is to find out where everything come from, and where everything is going. Somebody said, ‘Well I don’t think.’ Yeah, you’re going too. Get the point? You never seen, you never seen anybody, you never seen a preacher in your life but what didn’t say that he was right. Did you?
Student Body: No.
Dr. Kinley: Now, you got out here in the streets. I’m gonna bring this thing down front. You got out here in the world, you got the various different churches, church organizations, various different ministers preaching different things. One’s saying one thing about the same thing, and another’s saying another thing about the same thing. Did I express that so you could understand it. And another one over here he says something else about it. And another one over here he says something else. Now that’s how you got all your cults and all your creeds. And when you get through the whole entire thing, go through all the whole groups, you won’t find even… Listen here to me, let me put this in there too. Even right in the same organization, you’ll find ‘em right in that same organization that disagrees with one another. Whatever organization that is. If it’s the Baptists, you’ll find ‘em right in the Baptist Church disagreeing with one another, right in that same group. You find ‘em in the Roman Catholic Church disagreeing with one another. You find ‘em in the so called Holiness Churches disagreeing with one another. In the best you got to offer, you find it just that way. Well why? The question is why? Something wrong some where. But whenever you come through this school, the baby and everybody else will say the same thing. Why? Because they’re all looking at the same thing.
Now look, if you wanna talk about Noah’s Ark, talk about it from a Biblical point-of-view. Now we won’t argue about it. There wasn’t but just one door and just one window in that ark. Now it don’t make no difference where you come from that’s all you can get in it. You understand, Bishop?
Bishop Short: That’s a fact.
Dr. Kinley: It just don’t make no difference. That’s all that Gabriel and Michael can get in it. There ain’t no, there ain’t no patch up, there ain’t no fix nor nothing to it, you just can’t get but the one door and one window in it. Now there oughta be some reason for it. Well now the reason why there isn’t but one door in it, because that one door represents that one what?
Student Body: Way.
Dr. Kinley: Now that’s all there is to it. And listen, everybody that got saved from the flood had to go in that one door. All them that didn’t go in that one door were drowned. Now that’s all there is to that. There’s no argument to it. Get the point? There’s no argument. There isn’t but one God. Messiah said, ‘I am the way. I am the truth,’ not truths, not ways. I don’t when people are gonna get off of truths and ways. Pilate says, ‘What are..?‘ ‘That’s me, I’m the truth, I’m the way, I’m the life.’ You be here in the last few meetings, you been hearing me say, if you got any questions, see me, ask me about it. Is that what you been hearing me say? I say I’ve been everywhere, know everything. Ask me. Now I don’t mean as a man. I don’t mean as a man. I mean that my father, just like Dr. Roland said, He was the Law Himself incarnate. Maybe we better read a little about that, how about that? 12th chapter of Hebrews, verse one. First chapter of Hebrews and verse 1. Take the first chapter and the first, begin at the first verse.
Dr. Kinley: Now look here, when you start to read Hebrews, don’t, don’t churn it all up with the rest of the epistles. Always somebody running references, cause everything is worked out with the Hebrews, the Gentiles, they didn’t know nothing about it. Get the point? So now, Paul is talking to… Somebody said, ‘well Paul is a…’ They said this to me too, said now, ‘now you can’t prove that Paul is the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, the author is unknown.’ Now I wanna tell you that that’s not so. Now you got the same author of the epistle to Hebrews as you have to the Romans or to Peter, or anybody else. Same author. Moses, is to that matter, Daniel, you got the same author, and He is known. Get the point? Isn’t He? Authored the whole entire thing, and the finisher. How am I doing? Alright, Am I doing alright?
Student Body: Right.
Dr. Kinley: Alright. First chapter and the first verse.
Another Reader: God at sundry times.
Dr. Kinley: God. I don’t like that. Because that is the place where we are having some of our troubles at. Did you notice that man asked me a question here the other night. He couldn’t understand about the, what is meant by, ‘Let us, let us make man.’ He couldn’t understand that. The world hasn’t understood it yet. Now anytime you start, and you never seen nobody in your life, you never seen no preachers, in no organization, but what he didn’t get up and just say, “God.” Now that don’t spell he knows anything about it at all. Get it now. Don’t spell a thing. Any skeptic, atheist, agnostic, infidel, liar, hypocrite, backbiter, you name it, can get up and say that. Don’t, that don’t spell he knows anything about it. Listen at me, even the devil, that’s where the problem is. Even the devil knows about God as you’re talking it, and he fears and he trembles. So you just saying God, that don’t mean a thing.
Now when they wrote this book, that you got your King James Version, now you can get confused and messed up in all fashions. Suppose you try reading that out of that, of that, that ____.
Mary Gross: Elohim, who at sundry times
Dr. Kinley: Now Elohim, who at sundry times. Now what is the difference? Now see you got here in, in the Hebrews, I mean, I mean you got in the King James Version, you got, ‘God, who at sundry times, spake unto us.’ Now everybody comes along and say that and still that question in the mind: who’s the us and the we? And even often times people say, look here, Paul put it this way, ‘Gods many, Lords many.’ Now the question now, which was these Gods you talking about. See the point? And that’s how we get into all our troubles about this, you call it the Godhead. And you got it all separated and divided up and all fixed up. Then Christendoom has said, ‘Well,’ listen, you have to pay attention to what I’m talking about. No, no, no, no. You’ve been nearly two thousand years and you haven’t learned it out there yet, so don’t say that our pastor taught it. Get the point? Always somebody wants to jump up, and say, ‘Well we been taught all of this and that’s, that’s the way they teach over to our church.’ Well you’re not in church, for your information, now. You’re in school and in school you’re supposed to be learning about all the errors and mistakes that you and your pastor made over yonder.
Student Body: Right.
Dr. Kinley: Williams that’s your business here. Now you got Elohim. Elohim, who in sundry times. Well I’m not, I’m still not satisfied with it. Genesis one and one. Let’s see if we can’t get straightened out. And you might stop by Genesis 1:26 too. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Then we can get, then we can get straightened out. Now this is important, Freddy it’s important. It it wasn’t important, I wouldn’t stop to take up the time to fool with it. I’d go on up on cloud nine. But let’s let it be the dew on the ground, for awhile. Alright. Now you got Exodus 24:9 and 10. Now before we’re gonna understand anything about what we’re reading about over here in Hebrews, we’re gonna have to find out about this thing. Said now, where you got there where you started, said, ‘God, who at sundry times.’ Suppose you finish the rest of that verse.
Mary Gross: and in various manners
Dr. Kinley: and in various manners
Mary Gross: spake in times past
Dr. Kinley: spake in, listen, in times past
Mary Gross: unto the fathers
Dr. Kinley: unto the fathers, the patriarchs, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Enoch, Abel, and all of the patriarchs, in times past, spake unto them, in the times… Now we got to get straightened out on what kinda God this is. Spake unto them in times past, spake unto the fathers in times past.
Mary Gross: by the prophets
Dr. Kinley: by the prophets. Read.
Mary Gross: have in these last days
Dr. Kinley: have in these last days
Mary Gross: spoken unto us
Dr. Kinley: Now, if you don’t know nothing about the last days, you don’t know nothing whatsoever about what you’re reading about. Hath in these last days, did what?
Mary Gross: spoken unto us by his son
Dr. Kinley: spoken unto us by his what?
Mary Gross: son
Dr. Kinley: son
Mary Gross: whom he hath appointed heir of all things
Dr. Kinley: whom he hath appointed heirs. Read.
Mary Gross: of all things
Dr. Kinley: of all, all things
Mary Gross: by whom also he hath ordained the ages
Dr. Kinley: by whom also he hath ordained the ages. Now you see what, now you see what we got. Now when you get that all cooked up, and boiled down, understand what it is all about. See right where what you’re talking about. You got it right there, setting right there with you. That’s why it’s important for you to go back here. Alright. Now you’ve got God, who in sundry times, or in diverse manners, and various different ways, spake unto us. Us who? Now who you talking about? To the Gentile? No. Spoke unto the Jew back here, by the mouth of the prophets, and various different ways.
Now let me see if I can show you this. Now we are always talking about the carnal ordinances, aren’t we? Now when we, when we show a carnal ordinance, now this is one way we show it. This is a.., and all these various different ordinances. Now he spoke back there of these different things and these different ways, but it all pointed to One. But now when He come down here… Now just like Jehovah’s Witnesses, I have to tell on ‘em, there to good to keep. They said that Jesus was God’s chief representative on earth. Now my story’s different than that. I said that He was God manifested in a body, or Paul said that He was God manifested in the flesh, seen of angels, believed on in the world. He wasn’t His representative, that was Him Himself. Alright, read.
Mary Gross: who being the brightness of his
Dr. Kinley: No, that’s enough of that first chapter of Hebrews cause we’re kinda through with that for a moment.
Mary Gross: then went up Moses
Dr. Kinley: Now God who in sundry times and diverse manners spake unto us by the mouth of the prophets, but hath in these last days, you have in your Book, hath spoken unto us by His Son. Is that, is that the way that’s in your Book? Now here’s what you have to have. Come on down, Messiah is born in Bethlehem of Judea. And then He went into His ministry, and then He spoke to these Jews in those last days. Now what do you mean when you say that? If there was four days gone, or four thousand years gone. You don’t have but two more left. So in them last days, opening up of the fifth millennium of time. I said fifth. Then if it’s opening up with the fifth, then you don’t have but the sixth left. So therefore in those last days, when Messiah was here. We been in the last days ever since He’s been here, cause He came in the fifth, opened up the fifth millennium, or fifth thousand year. Then you got the sixth. Then comes the seventh, or the Sabbath, or the rest.
So He was God Himself that’s spoken unto us, by His Son, as Dr. McCoy said there that He come in His Father’s name. Now you can’t fix it, there’s no way under the sun for you to fix it, Jesus Christ, you just can’t do that. His Father’s name is Yahweh. Now it’ll help you out a whole lot, it’ll help you out a whole lot. Now His Father’s name is Yahweh. Now His Son has got to have some Yah stamped somewhere, for Him to come in His Father’s name. And that’s not Jehovah. Somebody said, ‘Well Jehovah is the English translation of Yahweh.’ Well, why don’t you just go on and use the thing straight and you won’t have to be bothered with the translation. See the point? But it just isn’t that. That’s what they said it was, but it’s not that. That’s why they don’t use it that way too. Now when we speak of.., now they said Jehovah’s Witnesses. Now Jehovah’s wrong, his witnesses, you just got through reading about it. There in the first chapter of Hebrews, God who at sundry times, and in diverse manners, spoke unto us, us by the mouth of his witnesses, Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Student Body: No.
Dr. Kinley: Yahweh’s witnesses, those are His witnesses that he’s talking about, by the mouth of the prophets, those are the witnesses. Somebody running around here ____ ____, ‘how come ____ Jehovah’s Witnesses. Oh, we know we’re right, we got twenty two hundred ministers.’ Why does the Roman Catholic Church say the same? That don’t make them right. If it don’t make the Roman Catholics right, how’s it gonna make the Jehovah’s Witnesses right? I preach the truth. Try. Alright, but now we wanna be put together.
Now you have here, you have here, in Genesis 24… Now we’re talking about God that you keep using in this Bible. You got that God who in sundry times and diverse, is that what you got? Now here you got over here in Exodus 24:9 and 10, read it quick.
Mary Gross: Then went up Moses
Dr. Kinley: Then went up Moses
Mary Gross: Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu
Dr. Kinley: Nadab and Abihu
Mary Gross: and seventy of the elders of Israel
Dr. Kinley: and seventy of the elders
Mary Gross: and they saw the Elohim of Israel
Dr. Kinley: Oh yeah, you’re reading out of the right book. I can’t, I don’t want that now. I don’t want that now. I want your version of it.
Reader: then went up Moses
Dr. Kinley: That’s right.
Reader: and Aaron and Nadab
Dr. Kinley: Then went up Moses, Aaron,
Reader: Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders of Israel
Dr. Kinley: Alright, read.
Reader: and they saw the God of Israel
Dr. Kinley: and they saw… Now you see the word God coming back in there again? You see the word God? And they saw the God of Israel. Now every time, and all through your book, what you do you talk about the God or God or God or God, everybody out there: God, God, God. But down here we want you to know Him as He is and as He actually exists. Now there’s no difference over there with what you said about, when you said God over there, that ain’t no different than what it was over here in what the folks call the New Testament.
And say, by the way, while we’re on that too. You can’t get nowhere. It’s a hard thing to get through a sermon, because now what the people think, they think that, and according to the teaching, they think that they been reading it in the New Testament. So God’s not what you think, and the New Testament is not what you think. And Jehovah’s Witnesses or God’s witness is not what you think; in other words, all this thinking you been doing, it’s all twisted up. Then somebody have the nerve to come down here, and sit down here, and listen at me, and then this is what they say. They didn’t come to learn nothing. They thought they had all the answers before they come. They come to set in judgement on me. Then when they get done, they walk out, they say, ‘that man down there, he don’t know nothing.’ Said, ‘I disagree with him.’ Now if you’re much, if you’re all that much smarter than me, this is your place up here, cause this is a school. Get the point? Alright. Now it said God. They saw the God of Israel. Now read the sixteenth verse, I believe it is.
Mary Gross: and the glory of Yahweh abode upon Mt. Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days
Dr. Kinley: Now listen close.
Mary Gross: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud
Dr. Kinley: Now, Now listen. Read it over again.
Mary Gross: and the glory of Yahweh abode upon
Dr. Kinley: No, no I don’t want you to read. I thought there was something wrong with that. I want you to, I want somebody… I want you to read the wrong term.
Reader: and the glory of the Lord abode upon Mt. Sinai
Dr. Kinley: and the glory of the Lord abode upon Mt. Sinai
Reader: and the cloud covered it six days:
Dr. Kinley: and the cloud covered it six days:
Reader: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud
Dr. Kinley: and the seventh day he called unto Moses
Reader: out of the midst of the cloud
Dr. Kinley: out of the midst of the cloud. Now listen folks, look up here at me. Now the cloud covered it six days. Now you just read back over here in Genesis, I mean in, in what you call the New Testament. You read back there that God in times past, or in the dispensations and ages past, spoke unto us by the mouth of the prophets. And I’ll have you to know that the prophets come clear on down from Enoch, Enoch the seventh from Adam, but have in these last days spoken unto us. Now you got it straight?
Now here he is back here. The cloud is covering it six days, so you can see. You’re gonna have to see. You’re never gonna get straightened out till you see. You can’t put it together until you see. Now look, now the cloud covered the mountain six days. Now when you read, I’ll just tell you about this, when you read down in Exodus the twentieth chapter, the twentieth chapter, where that God spoke from Mount Sinai, and gave them the commandments. Said I’m, in the twentieth chapter, listen now, listen to what he said. I am the Lord thy God, that you have in your Book, your King James Version, that brought thee out of the land of Egypt, and out of the house of bondage. You always got that God, that word God. Now, now you get up to this business here. Said, now where it said, remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Now watch this one, watch, now watch, we’re putting here, we’re putting this together, don’t be unconscious of it now. It said now, remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy, for in six days… Now you got, now that’s the twentieth chapter of Exodus, for in six days, remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy, for in six days the Lord God created the heavens and the earth. Now is that something like you got in your Book? I wanna know.
Student Body: That’s right.
Dr. Kinley: Now you got, you got the six days that the Lord God created the heavens and earth. Now you got Moses going up here and the cloud covering it six days. And now you got the Lord God speaking unto.., the mouth of the prophet, and you got the Lord God. And you got God, God, God, God. Then the twenty sixth chapter of, of, first chapter of Genesis and the twenty sixth verse, listen now folks, it says, Let Us make man. Now “us” means, to say “we” or “us,” is plural. Is that right?
Student Body: Right.
Dr. Kinley: Means more than one. Get the point? Means more than one. And you heard that man set right here the other night and ask me that question, besides asking me where did Cain get his wife. You heard me answer and heard me, you been hearing me talk about I got all the answers, well he asked me a few. Where did Cain get his wife?
Now look, let me show this one right quick. Now your Bible, Roger, does not say. You can see it plain almost all the way over here. ____ ____ everybody can see it here. Now your Bible does not say that God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden. It does not say that. You say, ‘Well I thought it did.’ Well, you can see that doc, I’m telling you now ____ ____ ____. It don’t say that. Does it? Did you think it did? Answer me.
Student Body: Yes.
Dr. Kinley: Well what did I say that for? What am I asking you about that for? I’m telling you this. Now when it comes to Cain slaying his brother. And Cain, it said Cain went out to the land of Nod, out of the presence of the Lord. So now they’re saying to me, ‘well where did Cain get his wife?’ Why, because there’s nothing said about Cain and his wife being ____, anymore so than there is about Adam and his wife being driven out of the Garden of Eden. Now the Lord God, so you say, listen, sent his angels and drove out the man, and the woman went on out with the man. The woman, who was called his wife, went out with the man. Now, watch I want you to see the relationship of it. Now then, here comes Cain. He’s marked and here he goes to the land of Nod. Somebody said, ‘Well where’d he get his wife.’ Well, just like Adam, ____ ____ his wife, went with him. Somebody said, ‘Who was it, was it ape, or something else.’ No, it’s just the same relation to him, as was this man here. And your Bible says that Seth, Eve conceived. Now listen, let me put it this way, Adam knew his wife. Now they’re just, where they’re talking about Adam knew his wife. Cain knew his wife. Now here’s the way they’re talking about. They don’t understand what you mean when you say Cain knew his wife. Adam knew his wife. That’s the thing got ‘em puzzled. Think that Cain went out there in the land of Nod and out there he knew his wife. It don’t mean that. It means this: the same thing about Adam knew his wife. When God took the woman out of the man and brought her to him and gave her to him, he said now she is now flesh of my flesh, and bone of my bone that she shall be called Womb Man, therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave unto his wife. Now look, he knew where she come from and he did know her, when God come and brought her to him. Now you get way down the line, and you say, it came to pass that Adam knew his wife and she brought forth a son, and his name was Seth. Don’t you have brains enough to see that they had sexual relationship? That’s what it means by knew her. He knew her before that in the sense in which you’re talking about. He knew her when God gave her to him, he was acquainted with her… And he was a hundred and thirty years old when she, when he knew her and she brought forth Seth. He knew her before then, when she brought forth her other children. And he knew her before she brought forth any children. Now you see what I’m talking about? How you get all twisted up in the start of it and you just can’t get straightened out.
Now Cain, said he went out in the land of Nod, and there he knew his wife, meaning that woman went out with him, and she was his sister. Now all the days of Adam, he lived nine hundred and thirty years, listen folks, and had both sons and daughters. Now you can’t find the name of no daughter of Adam in the Book, but he had sons and daughters. And Eve is called Eve, so says the Book, because she’s the mother of all living, that is of the human race. So then if she was the mother of all living, and Adam was the father of the whole mess ____ ____, then you’re dumb enough, come up here and ask me,’well, where did Cain get his wife?’ And you say, sisters and brothers, that’s what you call one another today. Your wife and your sister in the true divine sense of the word, and your brother. Messiah, if He resurrected from the dead, He called ‘em brothers and sisters. That’s what you’re supposed to be: brothers and sisters. And if you’re not I hope you will be soon, but it takes something to make you that. Now, when it comes to the human race, all flesh that dwells on the face of the earth, one blood and one flesh. Everybody, all come from the same place. Now it’d have to be that way for it… Now what is he talking about? Why don’t you, what are you trying to say. Well I said that so that you could go back here and see that this one God that we’re talking about, all this you got out here in the earth, and that’s he was talking about, the first minister, all that you got down here in the earth, He is the father of everything. Everything had to come from Him. Jerusalem above is the Mother of us all. And we all had to come from the same place. Get the point? And I tried to show you by showing you Cain, the negative, and Adam, the positive. Now we thought all the time it was, somebody call out here, that the Lord God, drove the man, drove the woman out of ____ Garden, drove the man and the woman out, but the Bible says he driven out the man, the woman went out with him. Listen. Look, are you listening?
Student Body: Yes.
Dr. Kinley: When God made this boy, we have it down there on the big chart, when God made this boy he made him anthropomorphidite. Now you know what I mean by that, I mean that he was masculine and feminine united into one body. He was male and female in one, in one body. That’s what I mean by anthropomorphidite. Now look now, look and then after He made that boy out here, after He made that boy out here, there they are right up here. After He made that boy out here, outside, not.., no, no, no, God didn’t make him out in the Garden of Eden. Didn’t do that, but He made him outside of the Garden of Eden. And then He took that man, that man that He had made, that man that He had made, and He put him in the Garden of Eden. Put the man in there, not the man and the woman. He just put the man in there. That’s what your Books say. And when that man sinned, He drove out. But when He put the man in the Garden, the woman was in the man when He put the man in the Garden. Then He caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man in the Garden. After he put the man in the Garden, then He caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man in the Garden. And He took the woman out of the man in the Garden. The woman was in the man when He put the man in the Garden. And when He drove the man out, the woman went out with the man. Now it’s the same case, same thing in Cain’s case, his wife. His wife was his sister. She went right on out there with him. And out there he knew his wife, and the Book said she conceived and bare him a son. He knew her down here, and he knew her all along the road. He knew her going in, he knew her coming out. We all could use some sense and how the devil has got us all confused in things right from the word go. Just like we’re talking about this God business.
Now you got the cloud covered it six days. You got the, remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy for in six days, God, the Lord God… Is that what you’re reading about? You’ll never in John get it straight like that.
Now the twenty sixth verse says that, ‘Let us make man.’ Said, ‘now who’s God talking to there?’ Us means plural. Right?
Student Body: Right.
Dr. Kinley: So everywhere you go along you use that God, and there’s no way in the world to get straightened out like that. You’re use the title, that’s what I’m saying. Now it’s six days. Now hold still, cause you gonna get this after you leave. And I’m gonna let you go too pretty soon, but I do wanna get this point over to you.
Dr. Kinley: Now look, now you got there, for in six days the Lord God created the heavens and earth. Now look, look right up at me, Bishop. I got him setting up now. Now when I say something to him, you perk up too. I’m talking to you through him, See how I have done it. Now I’m saying to you that the Lord God did not create the heavens and earth in no six days. Said, now that looks like a direct disputation. Don’t it? Now look, look up here. Look up here. See the sun rising and setting, the sun rising and setting. Moses and them have come out of down here, out of Egypt. And the cloud had led ‘em out of there. And this is just only 1490 years before the birth of Messiah.
Now Moses is telling you that the Lord God spake from Mount Sinai there and said I am the Lord thy God that brought thee out of the land, this is after He brought ‘em out, said, I am the Lord thy God that brought thee out, they were already out then. Get it now? And remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy, for in six days, the Lord God created the heaven and the earth. Now you got it that the cloud was over the top of the mountain, and you said that, there is over there six days. Now then, I want you to go… You following me now? I’m walking backwards, going on back to where we started from there in the first chapter of Hebrews. God, who at sundry times and diverse manners, spake unto us by the mouth, but hath in these last days spoken unto us by the mouth of His Son. Now I’m driven, I’m going back.
Now then, now here you are, now you got the cloud covering it six days and you got Moses entering into the midst of the cloud. Now then, you got there that it said, Let us make man, now that’s plural, and you got God is one. Now you got plural. Now you read over here in the first chapter of Genesis and verse one, start at the first verse. You be quick, be quick.
Reader: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth
Dr. Kinley: In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth. Now here’s what I want you to see, Bishop. You’re reading, you got your finger on it. And you were saying in the beginning, God created the heavens and earth. And you say dogmatically, and all kinds of fights and riots start about staying on the line and reading what’s in the Book. Now you got there in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now take the twenty sixth verse of Genesis. Now look, now you got it that God said, Let us. Now you got God over here by Himself creating the heavens and earth. Down here in Genesis, down here in Exodus you got that the Lord God made everything that there was in the seas and everything that there was in the air and everything else. And tears just running down your cheeks, just as sincere and just as serious about it as you can be, and don’t know blue do about what you’re talking about. How am I doing Bishop?
Bishop Short: (CHUCKLES) Alright.
Dr. Kinley: You see what I’m talking about? You don’t understand. Alright, read.
Reader: Second verse. And the earth was without form and void
Dr. Kinley: And the earth was without form and void. I’m after the twenty sixth verse.
Reader: And God said,
Dr. Kinley: And God, now you got it again. And God said.
Reader: Let us
Dr. Kinley: Let us. Now what I’m talking about, now, now you’re in, you got in the beginning, God created the heaven and earth. Now you get down here to the man, and you said, ‘now he said God said, Let us.’ Can you see through what I’m talking about?
Student Body: Yes.
Dr. Kinley: Now any nitwit oughta be able to see it. Now go back ____ ____ ____. Now just what I just told you, get Exodus 24:9 and 10. Now then you got Exodus there. Now look folks, work quick with it and fast so we can get on out of here, but work quick and fast so we can get some understanding about it. So you’ll be benefitted today. And listen, you got to have this thing this way. Now don’t you, don’t you come up chewing the rag with me, and telling me, ‘yeah, I know God, I know.’ That won’t work down here. ‘See, I’m Reverend from…’ We don’t care nothing about who you are and where you come from. Somebody said, ‘Well I’m the bishop.’ I don’t care nothing about the Bishop. Somebody said, ‘Well I’m above that, I’m the Archbishop.’ I don’t care nothing about that. I’m Bishop too, I want you to know that. I’m as big as they are, as there is down here. And I don’t mean just down here at 1040, I mean down on the earth plane, cause I’m down here on the earth plane and up yonder all, all one and the same time. Don’t make ‘em no bigger than me. And I’m not exalting myself either. And they don’t make ‘em no littler than me either. How’s that? What we’re talking about is the mystery of God.
Now, you see there, you got there in the twentieth chapter, remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy, for in six days… Now during them six days, we’re gonna have a lotta trouble in writing this book about that. Ain’t we headed up to something. For in six days, the Lord God created the heavens and earth, He’s creating in six days. No, He didn’t create it in six days. He created in the realm of eternity, and the cloud hung over the top of the mountain six days, and Moses seen it while the sun’s rising and setting six solar days over the top of that mountain, God done created the heaven and earth, way back yonder in the realm of eternity, way long before that. Moses just seeing a vision. And them six days that he’s talking about, he’s seeing the vision in the six days. That’s just back about 1490 years before he was born, but the heaven and earth was created long before that. Then listen, Roger, you listen at me. Can you tell me how in the world that God is gonna create a creation in a day, when He’s first got to create the day before He can create something in it. What’s a matter with you? You’re saying that God created the heaven and earth in six days. That’s what you’re saying.
Now if God.., and you got Him one, and then you got down here, and you got plural, making a man, Let us. Then you got Him six days creating. Don’t you see? What you’re reading about is in sundry times, he showed this unto them by, through visions and revelation, and Moses is seeing the vision. Just like when you go home from here, you turn your television on. And you’re looking at something that’s in New York. You’re looking at something, maybe, anywhere. And that’s a tell a vision. And that’s what this is, that’s what Moses is doing, he’s telling a vision, and he’s seeing a vision in six days as the cloud, as the sun rose and set. Now he’s telling you in the first chapter of Genesis, in the beginning, in the beginning of the vision. He’s telling you what happened while the cloud covered the mountain six days. And on the seventh day that that cloud was over that mount, why He rested. How would they know? Now he had told them to gather manna six days, and on the sixth day gather enough for the seventh. Don’t gather none on the seventh. That’s the first anybody on earth knew anything at all about the Sabbath. And so he rested on that day that they didn’t gather no manna on. He saw it in the vision. Now they didn’t gather the manna before Moses saw the vision. They didn’t gather the manna before He spoke from the mountain. Now these are things that we just have to know, and we just have to see. And until such time that we can see we’re gonna be confused. And we gonna be having this idea, wondering whether God is alive or dead. We don’t understand His omnipresence. In six days. God did not create the heavens and earth in no six days. Now listen, I said that so it’s plain so you could see that.
What Moses is talking about here is, what they’re talking about here, is seeing the vision the six days that the cloud hung over the top of the mountain. Now look, listen Roger. Now I just got through saying He didn’t create it in six days, and you just got through reading to me that He did create it in six days. Now it just looks like I’m wrong, or else Moses is wrong. Something wrong somewhere. No, that’s not it. He’s seeing the rerun of this vision of the actual of creation. He’s seeing the vision or God is rerunning it over again. And it took six days up there while the sun is rising and setting. And on the Sabbath Day, which was the day that they didn’t gather no manna on down there, which is within there… He rested that day. And it took Him that time to show the creation. Now listen, says, Let us. Let there be light, ____ ____ a deep. You’ll, you’ll have to be grown to take this one. Now it said, let, He’s speaking here, it say, Let there be light, and there was light. Let the waters above divide from the waters beneath. Let the dry land appear.’ He said, Let this happen, let that happen. We’re talking about speaking now. And He was speaking in Hebrew too, so Moses could understand, because Moses was a Hebrew. Now here is what I want, here’s what I wanna wipe out now, and here’s where we carry you into the depths. When He actually created He didn’t say a thing. He just willed it to be. And that’s the way it was. But now for Moses to, to witness it, He got to have something to say here. He just performed what He had in his mind, performed. There’s wasn’t nobody to say us nor nothing like that to, because all the us and everything was there… Wasn’t nobody to convince that the light divided from the darkness, wasn’t nobody there. And if He had been speaking, there wouldn’t have nobody there to listen at it.
Now here’s what I’m driving up to show you. Now He inhabits eternity. Isaiah 57:15 say He inhabits eternity. Listen folks, eternity is a day, Eternity is the Day that has no beginning and it has no ending. You have no where start it, you don’t have no where to end it at. But now if you was gonna start it, as you say, then you would start it in a day that already was created, that already there, and then God did something in that day that was already created.
Now we’re talking about God, in, who in sundry times and diverse manners, spake unto us by the mouth of the prophets, and has in these last days… And then I tried to show you, and they saw the God of Israel, had it in your Book, and you had God create the heaven and earth in six days. And everywhere you start, you remember you say, God this, God that. And you say God did this and then finally got around to the place where in the Genesis 1:26 where God said, Let us make man. Now you’re buffaloed. Now here’s what’s the troubles is. Now if they had translated that right in your Book in the first place, you wouldn’t had been in all that trouble. Now I’m going back, right over the same verses, right quick, because I wanna go in a second. Sister Mary fixed me something nice to eat and I wanna home and eat it. So I’m, I’m ____ ____ ____. Now if you had put the thing in there right like it ought to be… Now you take Exodus twenty four, where it said they saw the God of Israel, and the cloud… Now go right back and cover it, go right back here, Exodus 24:9 and 10. Now be quick about this.
Reader: Then went up Moses
Dr. Kinley: Then went up Moses
Reader: and Aaron,
Dr. Kinley: and Aaron,
Dr. Kinley: Nadab,
Reader: and Abihu
Dr. Kinley: and Abihu
Reader: and seventy of the elders of Israel
Dr. Kinley: and seventy of the elders of Israel
Reader: and they saw the Elohim of Israel
Dr. Kinley: and they, huh?
Reader: they saw the Elohim
Dr. Kinley: they saw the Elohim. They saw the Elohim of Israel. Now in your English Bible, it says they saw the God of Israel. And now, right there where he’s reading at in your English translation, and in also your other translation, it said and they, Moses entered into the midst of the cloud. And the cloud covered it six days. Now listen, it said in the beginning, that’s Genesis one, God. Now if the Elohim that you seen in the cloud that covered it six… The Elohim. Now the word Elohim is plural, it means more than one, in one. Now let me show you what I’m talking about. This is spirit. It’s true essence, it’s true substance, it is the source where everything, good, bad, indifferent, every other kinda thing, has got to come from that, from that substance. That’s the universal master ____ spirit. That is the Father, the God, the Spirit. Nothing don’t exist but that, not a thing. That’s all that there was. There wasn’t nothing else. There wasn’t no we and no us, and yet there was. Now listen, I’m trying to put it together so you can see. Now that spirit that is there without any shape and form is the total embodiment of all substance and essence. There is nothing existing outside of or independent of it. That’s the Father. Father means origin and beginning. Now listen. Now that spirit took on a shape and a form, not in its totality. Now you have the same substance, the same essence in this shape and form that you have without the shape and form; in other words, this is this substance in shape and form. Now this without shape and form is one. This without, with shape and form, that’s two. So then that makes a ‘us.’ And He never created nothing, not a thing, until He took on that shape and form: that’s the plurality of it. Now you got that in Genesis 1:1, read both versions of it.
Reader: In the beginning Elohim
Dr. Kinley: In the beginning Elohim. You said they went up in there and they saw Elohim of Israel. You said in yours they saw the God of Israel. And you said the cloud hung over there six days. And then the six days you’re saying that the cloud hung over the top of the mountain, you got ‘em recorded in the first chapter of Genesis. Them same six days is the six days that you’re reading about in Genesis; in other words, that’s the vision that you’re reading about in Genesis. He’s telling a vision in Genesis, and look Roger, all scripture, that’s scripture come by vision and it come by revelation. And Moses telling what he saw in the vision. In the vision he said, in the… He couldn’t see pure spirit without shape and form, he couldn’t see that. He couldn’t identify it. So then he says Elohim, which means that this pure spirit in the shape and form that he could see in that vision, that’s what created. Now read the difference, read in the first chapter of Genesis in your Book, and read the difference in the first chapter of Genesis in the other.
Reader: In the beginning God
Dr. Kinley: In the beginning God
Reader: created the heaven and the earth
Dr. Kinley: That’s right.
Reader: and the earth was without form and void
Dr. Kinley: Read. That’s enough, I don’t want no more in that, cause if you do we’ll lose the continuity of thought. Now read it in the other book.
Mary Gross: In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth
Dr. Kinley: In the beginning Elohim, plural. So now when you get down to 1:26, the plurality of it said, Let us. It was us all along. In the beginning Elohim, which was that… And it was no different between, In the beginning Elohim created. In the beginning Elohim made the man where it said, ‘Let us make man.’ But we got it torn, twisted up here, we don’t see, we don’t understand.
Now, you remember I was talking about Adam and Eve? Now look, if this man, Elohim… See you wouldn’t exist. When I talk even angels, they don’t tread along there. I don’t blame you for going out here saying, ‘I don’t believe in what that man said.’ There ain’t no way for you to believe it unless you understand. Now this Elohim, which meant the spirit in that embodiment. Showing, as we might say in words you might understand, God or the Father embodied all essence and everything. And shape and form, He is masculine and feminine within Himself. He’s male and female within Himself. So then everything that was produced had to be produced male and female. Now listen at me Wallace, that’s the reason why He’s reaching down here and making the man with the woman in him, because both of ‘em in there. Is because both of ‘em are in Elohim, in pure spirit. And therefore the man is in the likeness and image of Elohim. And when you say image you’re talking about something that can be described. When you’re talking about image you’re talking about something you can look at, something that you can see, something that you can show somebody else. So man was made in the likeness and image, but when you come to the Fathership degree or pure spirit without any shape and form you don’t have no image. Do you see, you see how deep it is? See how deep it is? And listen buster, you setting right on that seat, right where you are. And sister, you setting right there where you are. You both have masculine and feminine genes and hormones in your body. I’m talking about the man has feminine in his body and I’m talking about the woman, she has masculine in her body. You heard me, you’re not blind. Because it’s got to be that way on account of this. So therefore, everything has got to be produced in that respect. Doesn’t make any difference what field it is, for it to have its perpetuation, whether it’s vegetable or animal, its got to be that way. Isn’t that wonderful?
Now it says, God who at sundry times and in many ways, it’s one way He speaks to you. You understand the terms? The language? You get it? In diverse manners spoke unto us in times past, spoken by the mouth of prophets. Moses and the prophets. Then God Himself took on that shape and that form. Born of a virgin, then, just like Adam was born of a virgin, virgin Mother Earth, Father. That’s the only son the virgin had back there, or that man just got out, that’s the only one. All the rest of ‘em had to come from that one He got out of that. So then, this one here, when He died and He went to the grave then, just like Adam, his wife, his bride. All have to do is just look. It’s just as easy as falling off a log. And the only reason why that we don’t understand, or the only reason why we can’t get together cause we don’t understand.
Now Israel was God’s wife. She was His bride back here. Now if you… When He into the heart of the earth and resurrected from the dead. Look, had to go in His side to take that woman out. He was, the plural was in Him. Adam was plural. Had to go in that side and take that woman out of there. Now then here, He’s got to, if He’s gonna fulfill this back here, then He’s got to be punctured in the side. And then Adam, when he awake, he saw his wife and he knew her. Same thing got to happen over here. When he goes to sleep, punctured in the side out there on the cross, goes to sleep, lays down there in Joseph’s new tomb, and it’s got to be over the Sabbath Day too. And then when He resurrects from the dead then His wife has got to be right there. As many of the saints which slept in the dust of the earth rose and went on into Jerusalem. Well then what are them? If you go back in the thirty seventh chapter of Ezekiel it’s the whole house of Israel, the dry bones in the valley. Reverend done preached, people knocking off. That whole house of Israel, the dry bones. Son of Man breathing, prophesy to the winds. Now you got here that God breathed into Adam’s nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul. Now you got him, now you got Messiah raising from the dead. Now watch, them things is just, all you do is just go from one to the other.
(GLITCH IN TAPE)
And you’re around here trying to tell me you’re alive when you’re dead, nobody’s breathed on you. You can’t understand this mystery from start to finish. You can’t see that Elohim or God is masculine and feminine both, in that one embodiment. And showed it down in the earth by making the man like that, and making him… Look, everything’s coming from him and that’s the way it is back yonder. And that’s the way you got your Bible all twisted up here. Now in the first chapter of Genesis, it said, and Elohim or in the beginning Elohim. It didn’t say God there, but Elohim, which meant that spirit and that spirit in that shape and in that form. In that He made everything by reaching back in that other substance, that is universal master substance, and He took out of that and He made everything that was made, both natural, physical, and intermediate. And listen, let me tell you for your information, you’re going right back the same way you come. If you don’t know the way you’re coming you sure in hell don’t know the way back. That’s right. Cause that’s the way you have to go, round through hell. That’s why I said that. Listen at me, ____ ____ ____ ____. ____ hell or wherever.
I hope you’ve gotten something out of it. I didn’t get to all that I wanted to get to. But I wanted you to see that Paul was talking here in the twelfth chapter of Hebrews. And I wanted you to see in confirmation to what Ezekiel… Can I go on and say it. Now listen, now we told about they’re saying about the Hebrews, knowing whether Paul wrote it or whether somebody else wrote it. They question it. And I’m telling you that Paul didn’t write it, none of it. Moses never wrote none of it. Yes I know that the devil will say, Moses wrote it. I know all of that. I know it speaks of there on the Isle of Patmos, when John was on the Isle of Patmos, said what you see, I say write it in a book and send it the seven… I know all of that, but here’s what I want you to see. That what he is writing down there in that Book, God actually is the author and finisher of our faith. He’s the author, whether it’s the epistle to the Hebrews, whether it’s the epistle to any of ‘em. It’s not Paul and it’s not Peter and it’s Dan… That’s the reason why it ties in so perfectly one with the other and comes all through the dispensations and ages, because God is the author and the finisher of our faith. And that’s how it comes on down out of the spiritual realm and on down in the material realm and on down through the dispensations and ages. Don’t make no mistakes from one prophet and the other. He’s speaking to us. It is God that is speaking through the mouth of the prophets, not the prophets speaking, but it’s God speaking through them. But now in these last days He’s spoken to us by His Son, which means this, if you, if you can understand, God’s in a body, that’s who is the author and finisher of our faith. He’s coming on down through the dispensations and ages, it is the author of everything that comes into existence. And that’s the reason why there can’t be no mistakes. There can’t be no errors, can’t be no misunderstanding about it. And every man got this spirit within himself, purify himself, listen, and enlighten every man be in you, Jew or Gentile, it’s every man that’s got that hope in him that gets his eyes open, and they all speak the same thing. Why? Because they’re all looking at the same thing. And they’re all perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same spirit. And every last one is led by the Holy Spirit, or led by the spirit of God. The spirit of God ____ him up in the ____ transgression and so forth and so on. It don’t have all that friction and all that. There may be some impairment in understanding because one hasn’t grown to the extent that the other is. You may have to grow some. Which, I’ll tell you one thing, Paul said, wherefore, seeing we are compassed or surrounded with all the prophets ____ ____ in a body and everything, seeing we’re surrounded, therefore ____, not laying again the foundation of repentance and from the dead works, seeing that you are, and then on down to the last verse, said because Bishop, said you’re come to God. You come right up to Him. You come to the general assembly. You’ve come to Yahshua the Messiah. You’ve come to an innumerable company of angels. You’ve come to all that there is. Of all, anybody who comes to, in the spirit. So they’re ain’t gonna make no mistake, there ain’t gonna be no err, divided, and if I understand and I impart it to, I gave you the secret, Bishop, you’re understanding would be just like mine, or mine would be just like yours. ____ believe, then it’s because we’re all looking at the same thing. I hope that you got something out of it.
(STUDENT BODY APPLAUDS) (END OF TAPE)
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