Institute of Divine
Metaphysical Research®

How Can We Help?
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by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley


Los Angeles, California


1 90 minute audio cassette tape

transcribed by Sandra Giragosian

proofread by Robert Fenti, Gerry Rothstein, and Michael Rothstein

proofread and approved by International Public Relations Committee: 1996


1.  …indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.

2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.

3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, uh, see, you see, you see what I mean, isn’t that right, understand, you understand, do you understand).

4. ___ indicates an inaudible word or syllable

5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber.


Moderator: The second speaker for this evening, the Founder and Dean Dr Henry C. Kinley.

Dr. Henry C. Kinley: Thank you, ever so much. I know those of you that understood what he was talking about, why you ____.  Of course, I can appreciate and do realize that what he said was pretty deep at times. And there are babes, in such expressions, that possibly wouldn’t know what he was talking about. Now, the reason why I got up here is I wanna make it real good and plain, because it takes a lotta courage, and a lotta ambition, a lotta anxiety, and all that kind of thing, to have push enough to last 35, 36 years. I don’t know whether you understood that or not. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) With all of the repercussions, with all of the disputations, and with all of the things that have been said against, against the school and its teaching, with all of the different types of creatures, everywhere… We haven’t cut out any of them. We let everybody that wanted to have anything to say, say it. Even people have gotten up here in Hollywood… We had some over there. They said they was atheists. They just didn’t believe, from Cincinnati.

Now, it doesn’t make any difference what your case is, or what you believe, how you feel, what you think. There’s a way of finding out the truth about that, whether you’re right or wrong about it. Yes indeed, there is a way that you can find out the truth about it.

Now, I’ve been at home, trying to sit down and write this book, and get it back into the the press. And, when I first wrote it, I wrote it up in about 26 or 30 pages. Now, this is what the school asked me for. They said, ‘Well, now look, we don’t want to be a downgraded school. What we want to be is outstanding.’ Is that what you all said to me, Dr. Gross?

Dr. Gross: That’s right. That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: And I said, all right. I’ll write it. They wanted a exegetical analysis, and interpretation, and remonstration on this work. And they wanted it in purely academic form. I wrote it like they asked me to. And then I brought it to school and read it. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Do I need to tell you what they said? (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) No, they didn’t understand no parts of it. So, they insisted that I take it back and break it down. So, I did that. And I brought it back, and I read it again. And they said, ‘Well, we still don’t understand. And, if we don’t understand in here, we know good and well, the persons out in the street don’t understand.’

So then, I had to work for a living. So, I just told Dr. Gross, I said, ‘well, I’ll kind of go through it again, and work it over. I don’t have too much time, because I’ve got to make a living.’ So, I kind of perused through it a little bit. And, of course, I’m not a professional typist. So, I had to get it, pick it out, like this. And that took time, too. So, I brought it back, and they still didn’t understand it. So, then, I said, well, I’ll tell you what you do. You take it to somebody and let them try to break it down. So, he took it to the Dean of Wittenburg College in Springfield, Ohio.

Dr. Carl F. Gross: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: Is that right, Dr. Gross?

Dr. Carl F. Gross: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: Am I telling the story right?

Dr. Gross: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: And they offered to pay him to break it down. And he took it, and when he read it, he said, ‘Uh uh, but I’ll, I’ll try.’ So, he got to digging, and worked with it for, I don’t know how long. Dr. Gross knows more about it than I do. Now, that’s the Dean I’m talking about, the Dean of Wittenburg College. Now, that’s a Lutheran college. And they don’t call it a college no more, they call it a university.

And finally, he brought it back and said he just couldn’t do nothing with it. And the reason why he couldn’t do nothing with it, because it took a whole paragraphs and sometimes whole pages just to break down one word. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS)

Dr. Carl F. Gross: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: So then, they asked him what’d he charge for what he had done, since he didn’t, couldn’t do it. And I think you paid him a hundred dollars.

Dr. Carl F. Gross: About a hundred dollars. Yeah.

Dr. Kinley: Is that right, Dr. Gross? Then I come down from Cleveland, Ohio. I was in the insurance business. I come down from Cleveland, Ohio; and I was the speaker in Springfield. And that man come from Wittenburg College just to see me, just to look at me. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Isn’t that right, Dr. Gross?

Dr. Carl F. Gross: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: Well, I spoke that night. The press was there from the ‘SPRlNGFlELD DAILY NEWS.’ Said, ‘Well, the man is educated, but I’ll tell you one thing. We just don’t believe what he says. Now, the reason why we don’t believe it, is because those people over there are not in those positions to go and stage another war. They just don’t have the means.’ So then, they got after me after school, and this is what I said to them. Said, look, I’ll be back here in 60 days. Now, one month I come to Springfield, and the next month I went to Cincinnati. I alternated. So, I said, now, I’ll be back in 60 days, and when I come back, they will be fighting. So, when I got back on 60 days, they were fighting. I told them where, in Korea. And then they took me down to the press, and wrote an article in the newspaper about it. They wanted to know how that I could tell what was going on and they couldn’t. How did I know what’s going on, when all their analysts, world-wide news media, central intelligence agencies, and so forth and so on. ‘Now, how do you know?’ So, I told them, this is what I told them. ‘Now, how could you tell that I didn’t know?’

Now, this is what I want to say to you, folks. The reason why I’m bringing all this up to your attention. I want you to see what a problem and how hard it is for somebody to get up here and try to tell you something in a way that you can understand, so that it will be beneficial and proved to you. Now, before you can do that, what you have to do, now this is a must, you have to have a profound knowledge. It just must be that way, before you can tell the thing effectively to somebody else. Now, when you do tell it that way, if you’re not careful, a lotta people will not believe you. Now, that’s nothing new, either. That’s not a thing new.

Now, here’s what the people don’t realize. This is what they don’t know. Now, last Friday, you seen a man stand here in this floor. And the Sunday before, maybe Sunday a week before that… Now, we were over to John Littlefield’s place. And you pick up the Saturday’s paper, and you’ll see church this, that, and the other, all advertised. And if you’ll read the fine print, in the free advertisement there, you just see a whole line of it.

Now, the point I want to convey is this. Now, when we were over there, at that place, over to Littlefield’s, one of the men that was over there, that was supposed to come here last Friday night, he has been here before. And you’d… remember Starch was a man that had that… the lights, the signs, and, and on the… folks is on the pictures. And had the little boxes and all. And had my name, and Dr. Harris’s name in there. Now, you can’t type me up. Now, you can’t do that, you don’t make no hit with me like that. But, now then, that man, he didn’t believe in reincarnation. The man that come over here, he believed in reincarnation. Now, I doubt seriously, with this audience sitting here before me now, that many of you don’t know the doctrine that pertained to reincarnation. Now, suppose we say this, pantheistic evolution by reincarnation. Then you wouldn’t know, you’ve asked me to express these things in academic terms, and way on up, and then tell you about it. And then, when I do do that, then you don’t know what it’s all about, you’re puzzled. And sometimes will say, ‘Well, listen, I don’t believe what that man said.’ How can you believe something you don’t know nothing about. Get the point? You just can’t do that.

And here, I wanna tell you this, before I forget and run off. Now, Roger, Dr. Gross, now you can’t fool nobody. You can’t fool nobody but yourself. If you do have the Holy Spirit, you have to prove it. You just don’t go around and tell people,  ‘I’ve got the Holy Ghost. Why don’t you have the Holy Ghost like me?’ Now, that ain’t gonna work. Noooo indeed. That, now, you, that, that won’t work! No good whatsoever. And you going around telling somebody what you believe, that ain’t gonna get it either. no sir. For the most part, most of you don’t even, just like I told you about those men. Now, when he spoke of reincarnation, if you know what the re means Now to say reincarnation, just simply, we’ll just change the word, reinhabit, or return to the former place where you were.

Now here’s the case of reincarnation in the Bible. I’m not going to go through no whole lot of scriptures. It’s not necessary. Now, when Messiah, before He died on the cross during the time of His ministry, He sent His disciples out to cast out demons. Told ‘em to go and preach and teach the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. Cast out demons, or people say devils, which, at that time, was looked at, a lot of it, as afflictions, diseases, whatnot, mental deficiency and derangements; in other words, the lunatics and crazies, and physical impairments. In other words, heal those folks. And they went out and did that. And then they come back rejoicing because they cast those out.

Now, the scriptures have got to be fulfilled, they cannot be broken. So now, one time He’s up in the mount, preaching up there. And He took His text on the same thing that was here. Said you’ll. – – That’s what, that’s what some folks, people call the beatitudes, the 5th chapter of Matthew, down through the 7th chapter of Matthew. He took His text. Now, the reason why He took His text there, and the reason why He ascended the mountain was because He had to fulfill this; in other words, He had to speak to them from the mountain. Is that clearer to you now?

Well now, when Moses come down out of this mountain, he found these people down here, after God had told them not to build that golden calf. Now, they did just the very contrary to what He told ‘em to do. Well, now, when He comes back, here’s Peter, James, and John here. Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu here. And both of these cases are a repeat, too, of this because all of, all of it isn’t up there like it, like it was.

Now then, they found a man down there that was a lunatic, wasn’t just right. And they was working with him. And it never done no good with this one, so then they asked Him, said… Now, now this, now, been casting ‘em out all the time, but now they couldn’t master this one. So then, He… they, they, they asked Him, ‘Why couldn’t we do that?’ And He said to ‘em,’This kind cometh by…’ What?

Student Body: Prayer and fasting. 1

Dr. Kinley: Is that what he said? And He cast that spirit out; in other words, He healed that man. Right? Now, I want you to see who He was. Now, He was the real genuine Son of Yahweh; in other words, He was Yahweh, incarnate in a body walking around on the face of the earth. Now listen, now they were under the Dispensation of the Law at that time. They were partaking and they were eating of the sacrifices. They had to in order to fulfill what was done under the Law. But now, He tells them this power this time comes by fasting and prayer. Well now, not understanding, what a person would ordinarily think, would be that you have to abstain from food, from what He said to them, have to abstain from food. And if you… And unless you abstain from food, then you couldn’t have that power. Well, let me show you what that, what that would mean.

Now, if they abstained from keeping these Passovers and these ordinances, which they were told to do, it would still have been wrong. But now, here’s what they didn’t see and here’s what they didn’t understand. Now, in this dispensation, over here on this side of the cross, we don’t eat of none of that. We don’t partake of none of the carnal ordinances; in other words, we are fasting! Total abstinence from food. We’ll not participate or indulge in any of them. A complete fast; in other words, we will not eat no Lord’s Suppers. We will not partake of any of those carnal ordinances that was on the other side of the cross.

‘What do you mean? Do you mean that you won’t eat no lamb? You won’t eat no beets?’ No! The fasting I’m talking about is you sitting down eating those things with the consciousness of obedience to the Law… Here’s a man fasting! And look at how fat some of these people are around here. Running around seeing Dr. Harris about overweight, just as fat as they can be. Doctor tell them you best take off some of that lard. Fasting! And eating… Did you ever see any of that in here? I haven’t offered nobody none. Did you get that?

Now, in this dispensation, the power, the power of God, or the power of the Spirit in you or what these things pointed to, the actual power is in you now! It’s no more a shadow, it’s a reality! Now right there is where the Devil got the thing all messed up. That’s how he gives himself away, that they which are true might be manifested.


1 Matthew 17:21

Now listen. Listen at me. Now, when He was nailed to this cross, and took down off of the cross, and put in Joseph’s new tomb out there, and raised from the dead… Now, you can take a Bible and read about that. Anybody can. And after His resurrection, as Dr. McCoy spoke this Sunday, He went… He’s gonna have to fulfill the whole thing. He, He was the Lord that prepared that fish that swallowed Jonah. Now listen. Now, that was not contained in the ordinances that was given to Israel. That was an order that was given to Jonah. And that fish symbolized the grave, or the tomb, in which Jonah was buried. And then, when Yahshua, the Messiah, resurrected from the dead, He couldn’t do that until after He’d resurrected from the dead. Why? Because you can’t eat the fish on the inside. You don’t eat the tomb inside. You have to get outside and then eat the tomb. So, that is to say then, that death is swallowed up in victory2 ____ light, life immortality, but that has to be fulfilled.

Now here’s where we’re having all of our problems. We’re not having any problems anywhere else. Nowhere else are we having any problems, but right on this what I am talking to you about now. And that is, we have got to have something to show somebody. We’ve got to have it. You know what I mean by that? You got to have something you can look at, and something you can show somebody. Now, Messiah said, in the 16th chapter of Matthew, or Mark, that they shall take up serpents. Right?

Student Body: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: Now, some idiot went out and grabbed up… Don’t tell me. I was there! …grabbed up a rattlesnake! Throwed it up in the congregation. What did you do that for? Said, ‘Jesus said…’ Chapter and verse quoted. Now, look, face it now. Jesus also said, in the 26th chapter of Matthew, this bread and this cup, he said take and eat. Now, they took one thing as literal as they did the other. And I’m gonna show you that I’m right, or die and go to Hell trying, by grabbing up a snake, a serpent, or an adder, or something like that, trying to show somebody how right you are.

Somebody else comes along, and they take a Bible, and they study, and study, and study, and study, and study, and study some more, go off someplace and then repeat and recite, and go back and look, study and recite, to show somebody how smart they are in the Bible. Know a couple of verses. Jesus wept. That’s right. Now, that’s what goes on all over the world.

Now, let’s mention this. Now, polytheism. Polytheism means the plurality of God, more than one. Now, you got a sun god, you got a moon god, you got a water god, and you got, just you name it. Then you got 629 B.C. The Romans, and also the Grecians, they built up a house for their gods and their idols, and set ‘em in there, according to whatsoever their concept of it was. Now, that’s polytheism.


2 Isaiah 25:8

Well, now, here comes along somebody says, ‘Well, you know, I don’t believe in that. Then you say… Then you turn right around, and you grab up some man. Get the point? Then you idolize me. Somebody else come along with the same organization, you idolize him. And when you get through with it… Now, that’s polytheism, a plurality of more than one god.

Now, monotheism, that means just one.

Well, let me tell you about pantheism first. Now, this, this is the meaning of pantheism, the pantheistic concept. You remember I told you about pantheistic evolution by reincarnation a while ago, and I used those words? Now, pantheism is the concept that the universe in its totality is God. Now, all this in its totality… now, that’s God. Now, the distinction and the difference between that and polytheism and pantheism, they have one thing for the sun, and another for the moon, and another for this over here, but, in pantheism, they just ball the whole thing up into… universe up into its totality, and made just that be God. Now, what they did not do, is draw a line of distinction between matter and spirit.

Now, I haven’t tried to worry you with all of these things. I tried to get it over to you in simplicity, the reality of things. And as Paul had said, now, I didn’t come unto you with excellency of speech, trying to show you how smart I am, but I come to you in all humility. And I want to say one thing to you. Nobody can say that I turned down anybody. Now, I have not turned down anybody. Now, I realize, am fully conscious of it, that I do have the advantage of you.

Student Body: That’s right.

Dr. Kinley: Now, I didn’t buy that revelation. I did not buy it. But listen, let me tell you, nobody has ever been able to get by it! Nobody. And I told you I’ve been in the colleges, been in the academies, and met with the very smartest of men on earth, studied every known philosophy under the sun, everything you can imagine and conceive in your carnal mind. That’s right.

Now, what did I say all the things I have said… Why did I say that? Now, here’s why I said it. I want you to realize that it is possible for you to know the truth. I want you to realize that. It is not above anybody’s capacity of intelligence. As Dr. Hosea Love said, when he was on the floor, it is the simplicity of it that proves the vision.

Now, in this dispensation, in this dispensation, now, you are a son of God. As John said: Beloved, what manner of love is this the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God.3 I didn’t say saints. Now, if you go get your dictionaries, and look up and find out the reason why I didn’t say saints… Yes, I know it’s in the Protestant’s, Catholic’s, and the HOLY NAME BIBLE, too. Saints is one that is canonized in the Roman Catholic Church. Sons of God, that’s what we really are. Now, the only way that you can be happy is just come on up with the ____, because you are the loser. You’re the loser, not me, and my job is telling you.


3 I John 3:1

Now, when we speak about this pattern. When we speak about this pattern… And the brethren have been up here saying this is a God-given pattern, and this, that, and the other, and so forth and so on. Well now, look, when you want to go back, and you want to tell me about some of the smart fellows, even can bring them up to date, if you want to. This writing in books, selling the books, and expressing their views and their thoughts on any given subject. Now, this is what they don’t know. They don’t know how to use it. They don’t understand that it is this way.

Now, first of all, there is (I’ll say it so you can understand it) there is a God. Now, that’s number one. He’s there, not dead. Now, I want to get this over to you, too, cause oftentimes people look at it like this, ‘Well, I’m too insignificant, just irrelevant, and nonimportant. God is not interested in me. I haven’t made the grade. I haven’t scaled high. I don’t have no reputation. My ancestors and progenitors, or the family which I come from, they didn’t amount to nothing, or they did amount.’ You can take it either way. It just don’t really make any difference. People get all them things in their minds, and they think that they’re not important in the scheme of things.

Now, I want to tell you, there has never been nobody in this world, and there never will be, nobody in this world, was no surprise to God. Every, every, every seed that has come into materialization, all the sperm that was ever injected into a womb, and taken on shape and form, was present and accounted for with Him in the beginning.

Student Body: All right.

Dr. Kinley: Now, here’s Peter talking about it. Yahweh is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us, not willing… not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.4 Did, did you get that? Now, that shows you, God is concerned about you. He died. God gave His only begotten son, listen, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.5 You are important.

But now, the thing you gonna have to do is learn. And this is a scheme that the Devil don’t know nothing about. And that is this. We can, as I was trying to tell you a while ago, about pantheism, monotheism, all these different doctrines and philosophies, these ideologies, these opinions, these concepts, these notions, there’s a way that you can tell something about them. I brought the books down here, for example. Didn’t we have down, didn’t we have books here that we showed you? I’ve even got up here and read out of them books. Now, we drug them in here enough times. And then, back in Ohio, we used to have books all around us, you didn’t get up and say nothing at no time, but what we didn’t take that book and open it and read it to you. Now, we are not a set of ignoramuses. We do know the doctrines of all of these churches.


4 2 Peter 3:9

5 John 3:16


Dr. Kinley: That’s right. Now, let’s see if I can get it over clean. Now, here’s where all the problem is. God took special pains, said He was going to do it, was to hide these things from the wise and imprudent, and bring to nought the understanding of the prudent.6 How did He do that? When He pulled this on out, over here on this side, on this side of the cross, and in this dispensation, which we have now. The Devil been a clowning around with this, that, and the other. He’s got to have robes and regalia. He’s got to have something! As Paul said, having a form of godliness, but denying the power.7

You say you believe in God! Prove it!! Don’t be telling me about it. ‘How am I going to prove it?’ All you have to do is open your mouth! You’ll tell on your ownself, when you commence to telling me Peter, or anybody, is the savior of the world. Can’t nobody save the world, only them that… only He that made it! Now, you oughta have that much sense. Do you see through what I’m talking about? Now, you’re plain down right common horse sense, Wallace.

Wallace: Right!

Dr. Kinley: Somebody say, ‘Well, look. I ain’t gonna follow that man.’ Pete said, having men’s personalities in admiration,8 wells without waters.9 And always somebody say, ‘I don’t believe that stuff you’re talking about.’ You know the reason why they don’t believe it? They mean that, too. They mean they do not believe it! And they’re in earnest about it, too. You know why? Because they don’t see nothing. Get the point. ‘Where’s the water? Where’s the communion set? Where’s the regalia? What have you got to show me that you’re right about it? What do you do? Where is this and where is that? Where’s the other?’ They don’t see a thing.

Go to talking with me about something. Said, ‘Jesus said for us to do this.’ I say right away, He didn’t say that. ‘Don’t tell me He didn’t say it! Pastor, why he’s a biblical, Bible-read theologian.’ He didn’t say it. You know what he told me there? He don’t know one dispensation from the other. Don’t know one age from the other.

As of now… I’m just about through, Brother Williams. As of now, a man with the Holy Spirit in him, or a woman with the Holy Spirit, that’s the only salvation!! If you’ve got that, nobody is gonna believe in you. And you talk just like a fool. That’s right. You don’t believe that? If you look at the 2nd chapter of 1st Corinthians. Don’t you always try to say, ‘Don’t you see? Don’t you see? Don’t you see?’ No, can not see. Messiah said, except you be born again, you can’t see.10


6 Matthew 11:24

7 2 Timothy 3:5

8 Jude 16

9 2 Peter 2:17

10 John 3:5

You’re looking at a literal, at a material thing. And you don’t see why that was. You’re looking at matter without seeing where it come from. It’s source of derivative. You get, you get it? You’re looking at something and putting it in your… in your belly. That’s what’s all the warfare is about now. Is something going in the belly. Something go on the back. And we call that intelligence.

Now, we’re talking about communist aggression. Well, look, if we had the truth over here, you wouldn’t have to worry about no aggression in this country. Says there, the weapons of our warfare, they are not carnal, but they’re mighty through God.11 Yes sir. Pulling down of strong holds… Look, will you let me just read one verse. Let me read one verse, maybe two. 2nd chapter of 1st Corinthians. I want you to see this. And this is, I told you 1st Corinthians, look it up. I find I don’t remember just exactly what verse it is. It’s irrelevant and unimportant anyhow. It’s not important anyhow.

Now look. Paul said, eyes hath not seen. Now, really, Paul didn’t say that. Well, ‘Here it is in 2nd Corinthians! Didn’t he write it?’ No. He didn’t say it, it was Isaiah that said it, Paul copied it. Eye hath not seen, ear hath not…


Dr. Kinley: …for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things.12 Now do you mean to tell me… Let’s get honest about it.

Do you mean to tell me that now God is revealing to you, or the apostles, guardian spirits, the things that He has prepared for them in the worlds to come.13 And here, you going to walk around here with some of your stupidity, and miss the boat, on account of some false or erroneous doctrine that some hypocrite preacher. Do you mean to tell me that? Do you think I… You don’t need nothing like that!

Paul said it’s impossible for them who have tasted of the good word of God and the powers of the world to come, if they should fall away, to renew them again, seeing they crucify unto themselves the Son of God afresh.14 Now, somebody said, Well, I just backslid.’ No, you didn’t. You didn’t back slid, backslide. You never slid forward. That’s what your trouble is. You just been running around playing a hypocrite. You’re not fooling nobody.


11 2 Corinthians 10:4

12 I Corinthians 2:9, 10

13 I Corinthians 2:9

14 Hebrews 6:6

All right. God has revealed them unto us by His Spirit. All right, read on.

Dr. Mary Gross: …for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of Yahweh.15

Dr. Kinley: for the Spirit searcheth all things, the deep things. There’s nothing covered up… the Spirit that’s in you, searcheth all things, yea the deep things. Read on.

Dr. Mary Gross: For what man knoweth the things of a man,

Dr. Kinley: All right.

Dr. Mary Gross: save the spirit of man which is in him?

Dr. Kinley: save the spirit of man which is in him?

Dr. Mary Gross: Even so the things of Elohim knoweth no man,

Dr. Kinley: Even the things of Elohim knoweth no man,

Dr. Mary Gross: but the Spirit of Elohim.

Dr. Kinley: but the Spirit of Elohim which is in Him

Dr. Mary Gross: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,

Dr. Kinley: Yes.

Dr. Mary Gross: but the Spirit which is of Elohim, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of Elohim.

Dr. Kinley: Yes! Yes. Now, the verse I want.

Dr. Mary Gross: But the natural man

Dr. Kinley: But the natural man

Dr. Mary Gross: receiveth


15 I Corinthians 2:10

Dr. Kinley: Now wait a minute. No sir. No sir. No sir. No sir. No sir. I said no sir! When I say no sir, I mean no sir! I mean you can’t fool me with it. But the natural man, or the carnal-minded man, you can tell him all you want to. Them ordinances ain’t no good. Natural man, he got to have something to show him! The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit. Why?

Dr. Mary Gross: for they are foolishness

Dr. Kinley: Didn’t I tell you you talk like a fool. He don’t see nothing you are talking about. He look down there at the Book, and will read a chapter or a verse out of there, and don’t know nothing about the dispensations and ages. Don’t know any dispensations. He thinks that Jesus says, and you must do it. Then, you will enter the spirit of the thing just that was under the dispensation, the natural man. You talk like a fool. Then, when he gets through telling you what Jesus said. You hear… if you don’t know, you’re in a mess. Now, all of them that Jesus said… I want to get you.., want, want you to see this. There wasn’t a one righteous, no not a one. It took the redempt… That’s why, when He said to them, they were all in the same boat, believe it or not. They had not been redeemed by His blood. But now, since He’s offered, offered up once for all, and we’re in another dispensation. Now the Spirit takes the place of all of that, and they don’t see that. Read on.

Dr. Mary Gross: neither can he know them,

Dr. Kinley: Now listen! You can try to tell him. Don’t you see? Don’t you see? Don’t you know? ‘No.’ Neither can he know, neither can he know. All right, read.

Dr. Mary Gross: because they are

Dr. Kinley: Now, here’s the reason why, is because they are what?

Dr. Mary Gross: spiritually discerned.

Dr. Kinley: Now you have to have the Spirit to discern that. When somebody’s up here preaching and teaching, and got you reading around in the Bible, if you don’t have the Spirit, and you don’t know what age and what dispensation, and you don’t discern about that, that’s the Devil up there. You understand what I’m talking about? And he’s trying to tell you about natural things, and all them different kind of things. He don’t know what it’s all about. And then he tries to parade his education and all. There’s so much of that. Now there’s just no way for him to know, so, if there’s no way for him to know, what do you expect him to say?

Now, this reincarnation, right quick. When them Devils was cast out on the other side of the cross, and then when they come back, now this is reincarnation. Just before He’s crucified, He went right back up there to the Sanhedrin Council and said to them, you generation of serpents and vipers. And they put Him to death for it. Now, look, what happened was, them same old satanic spirits, they didn’t come back like they was, just one. They brought back seven more. They brought back legions, and then the last state of that man was worse than the first.16 Now, that is reincarnation!

Now, that don’t happen like that on this side of the cross, because, when the Devil is expulsated out of a man, just like the Devil when they come back on the other side of the cross, they found the house all swept and garnished. Isn’t that what the Book says. Then he went and got a whole pot load over here, and moved in, to make the last state of that man worse than the first. But now, on this side of the cross… And listen, I want to tell you this. Ain’t gonna be no hanging round, tarrying, waiting on the Holy Ghost. That’s over. Somebody said, ‘Do you mean ____? ‘ Yes, that’s Pentecost!

Now the Holy Spirit’s been poured out. Now, instead of it being like that now, when the devils’s gone out, the house is furnished. It’s occupied. You’re filled with that. And listen, cap is screwed on tight, preserved. How long? Until the day of redemption. Now, that’s the gist.

But there has never been nobody in this world, that didn’t live, and move, and have their being in God.17 In other words, there hasn’t been anybody yet, separated and independent from God at any time, in any dispensation and age, but they’re unconscious of it.

I hope you got something out of it.


16 Matthew 12:43-45

17 Acts 17:28

Approximately 13 Pages