Institute of Divine
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by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley


recorded by Dr. Carl F. Gross on reel to reel recorder

transferred to audio cassette by Gerry Rothstein

1 90 minute audio cassette


Catalog#: 67.09 RY


transcribed by Geoffery Warren

first proofreading: Keith Gilkey

second proofreading: Michael Rothstein

third proofreading: Gerry Rothstein


fourth proofreading: International Public Relations Committee

approved by the International Public Relations Committee: 1997



1.  … indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.

2.  Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if  Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.

3.  Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, see, you see, you see what I mean, you follow, is that right.)

4.  ____ indicates an inaudible word or syllable

5.  WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber

SECOND SPEAKER:  LaSalle Williams.



Moderator:  The author of the book, God the Archetype original pattern of the Universe. Dr. Henry C. Kinley.

Dr. Kinley:  Thank you.  I know all of you enjoyed the preceding speakers.  One thing I wanna say is, is this.  If you noticed they said the same thing.

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  And they saw the same thing.  They saw it eye to eye and face to face.

Student Body:  That’s right.

Dr. Kinley:   Just ____, and there was no division among.  Now did you notice that?

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Well now you know why?  Is because they’re looking at, they’re looking at the same thing.  Not making any mistakes about it.  It’s possible.  Yes indeed, it’s really possible.

You know I sit there and I thought about many things.  One of the things I thought about is this:  we could have the thing right in our face, look right at it and then don’t see it or don’t understand.  Now to see a thing needs a understanding.  Now there’s some causes why people don’t understand things.  You know that?  I’ve heard people say this, probabilities are you have too.  ‘Now if God wants me to see that, he’ll have to show me,’ and you looking right at it. (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) Now you see how stupid we can be?  That’s all there is for you to look at.  Nothing else.  No where you go, in or out of town. (STUDENT BODY AND DR. KINLEY LAUGH) Ain’t that right?  That’s all there is.

Now, suppose I say this.  Now we have been talking, we have been talking about the Revelation of Him from heaven; and I wanted to make sure that you understood that.  And I’m saying to you, which some of you say, ‘well I never saw a vision, I don’t understand about visions.’ Now Dr. Williams has stood there and explained it.  But listen, just in case you have never seen one, you will see one.  You got one coming and listen, you’ll see it too.  And you will be there, and you definitely will see it.  If you haven’t seen one, you will see one.  Now somebody says, ‘well, I don’t believe in a ghost.’ If you haven’t seen a ghost, you will see a ghost. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Somebody said, ‘well I don’t believe it.’  It don’t make no difference, you’ll see it anyhow. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) How did I do? (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) Yes, indeed.  Now that’s what that is.  Now that’s what we’ve been trying to tell you.  We’ve been trying our best to tell you about such things as that, so that you won’t be confused about it.

Now another thing I wanna mention here is this.  Now Dr. Williams told you about it and so also didn’t Dr. Lawford.  They told you what a vision was.  So in, in just plain understandable words, I, I, you know I don’t like to think that people are that stupid.  Really, I don’t, I really don’t like to think that people that stupid.  Where you can look at a man and you got 33 vertebrae in your spinal column, don’t make a difference whether you’re male or female, but there is such a thing as mental derangement, or mental deficiency, weak minded and all them kinda things but it’s it’s a little, it’s better to kinda keep your mouth shut and cover it up a little bit, than it is to expose your ignorance.  I hate awful bad for everybody up in here to see something but me.  It doesn’t speak so well of me.  Look like I’m almost ready for the Camarillo.3  Now that’s right.  I wouldn’t like to think that I was that stupid or stupider than everybody else in here.  And I’m sure you wouldn’t.


3 Camarillo is a mental institution.

Now let’s say this.  Now we have, as Brother Williams just stated, we have a convention in the state of Ohio, and what I have tried to do in the past year is to carry you into the depths, the real depths of everything.  And now we’ve laid a background and a foundation to carry you into those things.  Now you resent us getting up here every time and we turn around and tell you about the same old text and the same old thing all the time.  You don’t like that.  Then when we tell you about something that’s pertaining to the same thing, but a different manifestation of it, and an analogy, you said, you don’t see it.  Well, there’s nothing else we can do but come right back and tell you the same thing we tell you over and over and over and over and over.  We’re gonna tell you over and over, and you gonna say, over and over you don’t see it.  We can’t make no progress that way.  Just can’t make no progress.

Now the thing is happening under our nose right now that I tried to tell you about.  If you have any faith at all, or any confidence or any…  Now if you don’t have no faith and no confidence, if you’ve got just a type of sense, just, just, just a little touch of sense, just plain horse sense; you can almost call it no sense.  That’s right.  Now when you look into these dispensations and ages as Dr. Williams has told you about.  Now it wasn’t long from the creation of Adam here, down to the flood.  It wasn’t too long.  And it wasn’t so long from here down to the crucifixion.  And it wasn’t so long from here up to where we are now.  Yet we might think that a thousand years, a couple thousand years is a long time.  But what I am trying to say is, the thing I’m trying to get over to you is this:  now if you’re not too stupid you can see if something happened within 1,656 years from here.  2,381 from here to that.  You can see that there’s something due to happen sometime real soon.

Student Body:  Right, right.

Dr. Kinley:  Now you can be stupid and see that.  You can even see that without looking.  You can see that with your eyes shut.  Now you know why I said that?  Now I’m gonna show you.  Now you look up here.  Now we’ve been talking about Moses, and the Children of Israel, and we’ve been talking about Pharaoh down here in Egypt and how they put the blood on each side of the lintel of the door, and it was dark down there.  Well, here He comes along and He fulfills it.  He didn’t do this, if you’d question whether this was so or not.  Get the point?  Then as we go on through this whole entire chart.  This I.., now we definitely sing a song:  “Is your all on the altar of sacrifice laid?”  Is that what we sing?

Student Body:  Yeah.

Dr. Kinley:  We’ve got a song is your all on the alt… Listen, your all is on there whether you know it or not.  You may not know it but it’s there.  Now let me prove it to you.  Any scientist will tell you that there’s fire in the center of the earth.  Somebody says, ____ ____ ____.  Well if you wanna argue, tell me then where the volcano eruptions come from, if there wasn’t fire there.  See that fire?  And the Earth is the altar upon which you are on.  Now then, the Earth that you’re upon, there’s a fire in the center of the Earth and you’re upon the Earth.  Now that’s no different, that’s no different than this altar here, and the fire in that grate.  No different.  And you are upon the earth.  All of you too.  Is that right?

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  But now when we’re singing the song, we’re not thinking about that. (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) Ain’t that right?  Singing, “is your all…”  Yes, you’re all on there.  Everything. (DR. KINLEY LAUGHS) We mean something else as a rule by what we thought, talking about in the song, but it’s all on there.  Now isn’t, now isn’t that simple?  Simple analogy.  Now, watch my thought.  Now that lamb was roasted with fire there, and ate it.  Now we talk about Pharaoh down in Egypt.  But down here we come up, this is just like, let me put it this way.  Now I’m going back; see this… everything made.., there ain’t nothing else, nothing here, nowhere, all the way through nothing but just repetition, just over and over.  That’s all this here by.  Nothing else but that.  Absolutely, positively nothing else but that. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) That’s all there is now.  So I don’t have no other alternative other than to come right back and tell you about the same thing all the time.  And it’s just doing nothing but functions in the realm of time.  Now I said that to say this.  Then if you could see that if we was talking about Pharaoh, Pharaoh is a king.  And this was of the 18th dynasty.  Now a fellow walked up to me and asked me about.., say the boy just kinda twisted up on it, they don’t know whether it’s the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, or 18th, or 19th dynasty.  Said, ‘which do you say that it is?’  I said, ‘well look, we’ll fix it so you wont have to come back no more.  And so you can tell.’  Now three times six is 18.  Is that right?

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  And then if three times six is 18, this has got to be the 18th dynasty.  And three times six is on, is that mark of the beast.  Ain’t that right?

Student Body:  That’s right.

Dr. Kinley:  So then if Pharaoh is the devil down here in the land.  Then it’s got to be the 18th dynasty.  So we just fixed it so there won’t be no more squabbling about it. Now you see it fixed up right here, Vicarious Filii Dei.  Here’s the man that that hath wisdom here, here is wisdom, let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast for it’s the number of a man and his number threescore six hundred…  666.  Three times six is 18.  But that’s.., by adding this plate up and down.  Then when you take it over the other way, 666.  It’s 18 over this way.  And you remember satan had that woman bound over like this for 18 years.  All bent over like this and He healed her on the Sabbath day and the devil just kicked about it, you loosed her on the Sabbath day.  That’s that three times six, that 18 when satan is bound there in Luke.  Well now don’t you see that the Children of Israel was down in bondage down here.  Don’t you see that now?  Can’t you see that?  So you don’t, really don’t need real good sense to see things like that.

Alright, now let me show you this and here’s what I’m talking about.  Then we’re going, we’re gonna go on home.  I’m not gonna keep you overtime; not tonight.  You can in fact quit now.  Yes, indeed.  And let me tell you this.  I know every time some of you stay out, I know when you get home you gonna catch hell.  I know that.  Some of your wife, they won’t come, then the man comes, he ain’t home just on time.  Don’t want you to come in the first place.  And it’s true with the husband too.  And I know that, I know the problems and all that you have to go through and all.  I don’t wanna abuse nobody, because I have to go through the same problems.  You are.., I’m charged with you.  You are the household of faith.  And Paul said, he that provideth not for his own household is worst than an infidel.  I have to give you something to eat.  I have to take care of you.  I’ve got to keep you well dressed, and well groomed with the truth. (DR.  KINLEY LAUGHS) Yes, well fed.  We, don’t want no anemic thing, under weight and all that kinda thing.  We wanna give you the real genuine thing.  So you’ll have enough so when you get home, ____ ____ ____ ____.

Now let me say this, real quick, now what’s happening as of now.  I mean now.  This year nineteen sixty six, seven.  This is nothing but a repetition all the way through here.  You’ve seen it plain this, this year.  And now you could just set up and go sound asleep.  Overlook it.  Overlook that just like you do all the rest of it.  Now this is a trying time, really trying time.  Nothing much in the world right.  People are blind, they can’t see that this here man down here.  What’s his name?

Student:  Nasser

Dr. Kinley:  Now you don’t even have brains enough to see that Pharaoh could not retain the Children of Israel down there when it was time for ‘em to be delivered.  And that man is named.  That king.  Nasser ousted king Farouk.  Nasser took his place.  Now Farouk, if you look at Farouk and Pharaoh, you’re not too far off.  So now, did Pharaoh overtake and pursue and take the Israelites back in there?

Student Body:  No.

Dr. Kinley:  Now there’s nothing else for you to say.  The name is put right in your mouth.  There’s nothing else you can say.  Nothing.  Well now it’s come down in time for it to repeat itself and God has set ‘em in there, those personalities in there, just like he set Moses and Aaron and Abraham.  He set these personalities in there with the proper names to identify them and correlate them with the events that happened as of now.  Now, I want you to look… What is this man that’s Emperor up here?

Student:  Hussein.

Dr. Kinley:  What is his name?

Student Body:  Moshe Dyan, Hussein.

Dr.  Kinley:  No, I didn’t say here.

Student:  Moshe Dyan.

Dr. Kinley:  No.  That’s, that’s the General.

Student Body:  Eschol, Eschol.

Dr. Kinley:  Levi Eschol.  He’s the Emperor; in other words he’s the king, Levi Eschol.  Did you ever hear tell.., who is the Lev.., who is Levi?

Student Body:  Priests.

Dr. Kinley:  That’s the Levitical priesthood.  Is that right?

Student Body:  Right.

Dr. Kinley:  Now then, Eschol.  Now do you know anything about Eschol? 14th chapter of Genesis; the 13th chapter of Numbers.  Read it when you get home.  It’s too late now.  You got to go home now.  You got to go, that’s all.  So then.., now you’ll find there in the 14th chapter of Genesis who Eschol is.  And Eschol and Levi, then you’ll find them hooked up there with Abraham, listen, and Melchizedek.  So Levi hooked up with the Levitical priesthood and Eschol with King and… Well the man is a Levite and he is the king or he is the Emperor.  I mean today, right now in Israel.  Well now unless somebody brought you up on that, you wouldn’t see it.

Student Body:  That’s right.

Dr. Kinley:  And yet and still you’re looking at it everyday, reading it in your papers.  You see the point now?  Now Moshe.., see how close to Moses we are?  Moshe Dyan.  Now that’s the general; that’s the fighting man, that fights for Israel, and guides their Armies.  Do you see that?  Now then here is Hussein.  Hossein, Hussein in here.  Then I want you to know that this Arabian in power.  It’s not just one little ____ thing, it’s scattered out.  Now we talk about Babylon.  The land down there.  Babylon, Media, and Persia, Did you ever, did you know that the Iraq, that’s the old Persian Empire.  Now when we take this man and standing in through here, look, we got Egypt, the Red sea, we got this in here that goes along with the chest cavity.  And then we got this that goes along on the head cavity.  And there it is set down there so which you can see it.  And you know that that’s… now we talked about the six days in here, you got a six day fight up there.  And the people involved in it, you read the papers.  And somebody saying, ‘well I don’t understand that.’  Now isn’t that enough to make you sick?  That’ll discourage somebody, and it’s just no sense in you being that stupid.  The thing it’s doing nothing else but repeating.  I wanna say this in conclusion.  You know that Pope Paul the sixth visited Jerusalem.  Now I don’t wanna take up no time, I told you that we wanna get out of here on time.  Now they received him through that Damascus gate.  And he went on down into the city there.  And on both sides of Jordan.  He didn’t go to Egypt, never went, set down in Egypt there.  But now here’s what I wanna tell you.  Then he spoke at the U.N.  Oh yes, I know he’s been.., this is about the fifth trip.  I could name ‘em right straight down.  Well, I will if you…  If it will help you any.  He first went to Jerusalem, then he went to Bombay, India, then he went to where…

Student Body:  U.N.

Dr. Kinley:  U.N., United States.  And then he went where?

Student Body:  Portugal.

Dr. Kinley:  Portugal.  That’s right.  That’s where he went.  Then he went to Turkey, where the earthquake was.  Now this is what they, this is what he’s saying.  He saying now that he wants to go back, move the Holy See from Rome to Jerusalem and build the Holy See in Jerusalem.  Now I want, I, I, I got to say this to you, but the clock is on me.  But I wanna say this to you.  You’ve heard a whole lot in your lifetime about the premillennium and the postmillennium: that Christ is gonna come back down through the sky and sit down on a throne in Jerusalem and rule a thousand years, before the fireworks, before the renovation of the earth by fire.  Then you’ll have the pre and the post.  Somebody say, ‘no, it’s gonna be burnt first, and then He’s gonna come.’ Pre and post.  Well now don’t you see that the Pope of Rome is the God of this world.  Don’t you see that he’s negotiated peace, talking about moving the Holy See to Rome, setting up the Vatican there, and people are stupid enough all over the world to believe it.  Now with that 666 on him he can’t do that, cause he can’t go back into heaven because Jerusalem beneath is allegorical to Jerusalem above.  Now so far as him coming jumping down sk.., can’t you see that the spirit in you… He’s coming to all of us, all the time, everyday if we can believe.

Student Body:  That’s right.

Dr. Kinley:  They that look for Him will He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.  He stands at the door and knocks.  And here we stand looking up in the sky.  Now we’re talking about it being revealed from heaven.  You will see that vision.  It don’t make no difference if you’re down in the ground or where you are.  You will see that vision, but you will not see looking at it with these eyes.  When He ascended here, they were not looking at Him as a physical man ____ ____ ____.  It don’t make no sense.  You try going out there and standing on a cloud in a mountain and see how far you get.  They.., in other words they said He went in a vision, ____ in a vision.  Here in like manner.  It don’t make no difference where you are.  And then when that happens you’ll be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.  The Word of God which He did that, as Dr. Williams told you, is quick and powerful, is sharper than a two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder the soul and the spirit.  Now I’m trying my best to tell you that you’re right down…  Face it.  You have to.., Dr. Williams told you 1960 was the end.  Now you’re seven years deep.  God waiting on you seven years.  Giving you a break, giving you a break.  You still walking around talking about, ‘I don’t see it, I don’t understand that.’  I’m even speaking in the other tongue as the spirit gives utterance or you don’t even know about your own language.  And you oughta be able to tell the way that you all get along at home, and the way everybody is, and the devil, everything he seen is natural.  That’s all he can see, he can’t see a thing spiritual.  Why can’t he see?  Because he don’t have no eyes to see with.  Let’s go home.


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