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8) SEPTEMBER, 1967:



by Dr. Henry Clifford Kinley

Los Angeles, California

CATALOG #: 67.09 PV

recorded on reel to reel recorder by Dr. Carl F. Gross

transferred to 1 90 minute audio cassette by Geraldine Rothstein

transcribed by Susan Whitney

proofread by Gerry Rothstein and Michael Rothstein

Proofread and approved by International Public Relations Committee:  1996


1.  … indicates that Dr. Kinley ended a word or a sentence without verbally completing it.

2. Audience comments are included only if more than one person responded or if Dr. Kinley was speaking directly to a specific person.

3. Unless emphasized by Dr. Kinley pause words have been left out of the transcript for the sake of ease in readability and comprehension (ah, see, you see, you see what I’m talking about, you understand, you know, isnt’ that right, you see what I mean.)

4. ___ indicates an inaudible word or syllable

5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS are comments of the transcriber

1st and 2nd speakers were: Dr. Gary Mathess and Dr. Wills

Moderator: …our founder and dean, the author of the book, God the Archetype (original) Pattern of the Universe, Dr. Henry C. Kinley.

Dr. Kinley: Thank you ever so much. I just wanna say that I know that all of you in the audience that are trying to know something about the reality of God and His existence really enjoyed the previous speakers. Another thing, I sit there and listen very attentively, pay attention to everything he had to say and I want you to know that I always do.

Now, one of the things I wanna say to you first is this… Now I’m gonna let you go home, some people complain about two hours being too long and all those kinda things. Now if you noticed we had three speakers here and we have some time left. It’s 20 minutes after 9. Now we could send you on home right now to put into practice what you have already heard, it would greatly improve your life, now what we really need is faith and confidence.

And as I sit there in my seat and look, I’ve looked at these charts around, and I thought to myself as Dr. Mathess had said, and Dr. Gross too, I know how special those brethren are in their occupation, have to be qualified, a lotta study goes into it, everybody can not operate an IBM machine. And many things that Dr. Gross does, everybody just can’t do it and it requires some study and you just don’t go along nonchalant. Now I said that to say this. Now these charts, the way they’re put together, now you ought to know better, no man can do it like that. It just.., that don’t make sense for you to think that, it would have to be Yahweh.

And if you take the smallest particle of matter and the most brilliant, academically trained man that has ever been in this world, or ever will be in this world, they can’t find anything in matter other than what God has put there, and they can’t move it and make it some other way other than the way that it really is. Just can’t do that. Now history itself is made up of nothing else but a repetition and function, and that function of spirit is infallible and it never errors and it never digresses and never deviates at anytime. And I’ve always told you.., now for you to, to have some knowledge of what’s going on, I tried for years to tell you this, if you watch.., now this is talking on into the future, what has been and what is now. That’s the past, the present, and the future. You will find that it has been nothing else.., and I do mean accurately functioning; that’s what makes up the history of the world.

Now if you come here and catch on to it, got the patience to catch on to it, then you will be benefitted. And I want to tell you this: it will increase your faith, it will increase your confidence, it will impart to you a profound knowledge, it will keep you from being unstable, it will establish you, it will confirm you, it will keep you standing. Now it may not seem like that. People oftentimes say, ‘well look, you don’t understand the troubles I have in my home and on my job and you don’t understand.’ Now there’s nothing happened to you except that which is common to man, but with every temptation there is a way of escape. Now here’s your scapegoat. That, that, that’s the way it’s going to be. That’s the real genuine.., that’s the way to escape the corruption and pollution that there is in the world.

Now there’s one more thing I wanna mention here to point out to you. I know some of you have looked for many different things, you’ve looked for Messiah to come, jump down through the sky in 1956 and 1960 and 1963 and thus far this year has nothing happened, so you think. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) And as Peter put it, he said, now, those who’d say that all things go on as they were from the beginning, well they done pretty well there, they can see that the same thing is happening over and over from the beginning, that’s better than some of us can do and all things continue as they were from the beginning, but this they’re willfully ignorant of.., how the world perished with water and that day that the ark, they were dis.., let, let me put it like this, they went in the ark and set there in that ark 7 days and somebody would pass along and said, ‘now look, we helped him build that ark, we told that ole fool it wasn’t gonna rain. How could the sky leak? Now we told him before we got the thing all built. Now there he sets out there with them animals in there, and the ole fool has been setting out there 7 days and nothing hasn’t happened.’ And what I’m talking about is: after the thing is all finished up and everything is all in order and hasn’t nothing happened, he set there 7 days and all of a sudden it starts to rain, then them people commenced to screaming to get in the ark. Now that’s not the first time. Now another thing, Moses, he had to wait 7 days before he entered into that cloud, just had to wait 7 days before he entered into that ark.

Now I told you that 1960 was the end and I showed you how it come about by actual figures and repetitions. Now what do I mean by repetitions, in the way it’s occurred here before. Now, listen, what’s coming up now, (we’re talking about the end) this is not the first time that the world has ended. And the one coming up now, the end, that won’t be the last time it’ll end. Now we just might as well wake up and understand some things. Now if we don’t, then this is gonna be the results, it’s gonna be just like them people, just precisely nothing else but a repetition, not a thing else but that. People will.., instead of it being destroyed by water it’s gonna be destroyed by fire. Now a lotta people say, ‘well now, listen I don’t believe that. That, that’s still.., just like…’ They didn’t believe it was gonna be destroyed by water either, but it was. You see what I mean?

Now my job is telling you the, the truth about these things, try to inspire and encourage you; that’s why we drew these charts. And I’m, I, I soon will be in this work going on 36 years. Now I have been among the smartest of men there is in this world. We have written letters to kings, queens, potentates, high authorities, popes, cardinals, I don’t want you to get this thing all twisted up and think that this is just some little passerby thing. We’ve had contact with the very smartest of men. Nobody, nowhere from, even from the, the most highest educated men that you’ve ever had in any and all kinds science and philosophy. They have all had to stoop. They have all had to take their hats off to me. And I wanna say this to you too. Now they do not teach like this, as is taught in this school; they do not teach this way out here. And I’m old enough and been far enough to know and to tell you the truth about it that they don’t. And it has to be taught this way.

Now I know that you.., a lot of you’re discouraged and say, ‘well, I’ve, I been going down there and they been saying that same thing over and over and over again.’ Now Messiah said this in the 24th chapter of Matthew, said, ‘in your patience possess ye your souls.’ Now listen at these words. He said for in such an hour as you think not, then it all happens: in a moment in a twinkling of an eye, just like when Titus plundered Jerusalem. Said, ‘now look, don’t figure on going down there and saving none of your valuables.’ He’s in.., up on the house top, ‘don’t, don’t try to save some of that stuff you got in there, run, get out.’ Now you pray that your flight be not upon a Sabbath day or in the winter and woe unto them that are with child and give suck in those days. Now you pray that it, it don’t be like that because nobody will be spared.

Now if you take the wars that are happening now, if you know anything about it, and understand anything about it, little infants that haven’t did anything to anybody, they took ‘em by the heels and knocked their brains out against the wall, just unmerciful in every respect. Men stand face to face and curse one another and put one another to death with a sword, and shoot one another down just like they were rabbits or, or some other species of animal, and think nothing about it, just brag and boast about how many they killed and so forth and so on. Now you see what I’m talking about. Now these things are going on all over the world, and we tried to tell you.., if I can get this out to you, I think I should.

Now we told you that pattern was three fold. Now here is Egypt, the Red Sea, and the wilderness, come on up in here, come on up in here and cross over, back over into, in in here. Now this is a, a, a, Salt Sea, this is a, I mean this is the Dead Sea here, a salt sea here. This is the Sea of Galilee. And here’s the, the River Euphrates and all of it. The whole land… Now look, what’s going on over there folks is nothing else but a repetition. Now that’s why I tell you history repeats itself. Now you can’t say that it don’t. Now, listen at this. Next year, if there be a next year, next month, October, is another month. Isn’t that right? Well now you look in your Bible. Look in… I’ve tried my best to teach you this. Look in your Bible and see what is supposed to happen in October. Look in your Bible and see what is supposed to happen to the years. Now that’s what makes up the history of all that you see, and there is forever and always going to be a reflection; so that means you’re without excuse. You know no man can do nothing like that. You understand what I’m talking about?

Now, when we made these charts, they are analogies and one thing is related to the other, then they come in at prophetic intervals and repeat. That’s all that’s ever happened in the history of the world. That’s all that ever will happen. And nobody on earth, nobody on earth.., they don’t understand this pattern and its functions, don’t.., is incapable and disqualified to teach you. They do not know. And if the blind lead the blind you’re subject to falling in the ditch, all of you fall in the ditch together. Now let me say this to you real nice. Now there’s people that’s arguing about water baptism. Now basically where they get all that argument at, is when Philip went down and baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. You understand? You see the point?

Now they say.., then they put, they make, make the Messiah out a liar, make Him out a liar by saying that He sent His disciples out to baptize in the great commission, baptize in water. He did not say that, that is not in the Bible. This is the wrong dispensation for that. This is the wrong dispensation for physical circumcision. This is the wrong dispensation for eating passovers that way. Now anytime anybody does anything like that, it’s easier to be deceived by those things. Why? Because they fit right with a carnal mind. And that’s how God is succeeding and hiding the thing from, from the, from the devil. Now we never told nobody that they didn’t need their supper. And Paul is saying that their.., people’s God is their belly. That’s what everybody is doing out there, trying to make a fast buck, so he can feed his belly. Solomon said, all the labor of a man under the sun is for his belly and yet his appetite is not satisfied. Now we in this country, we have plenty, plenty of wheat and grain and produce and what not, overabundance.

Over in Viet Nam and other places over there, the rice patties, they don’t have much to eat, little small children with malnutrition, starvation, little bones stick through their ribs, and here you are out here with an overabundance, belly full and some of us overweight and all them different kind of thing, we go home and lay down on a bed and sleep through the night. You don’t have guns and, and, and, and all those various different kinda things and bomb shells dropping round, and you still are unthankful, you have an opportunity to come down, sit down here and learn and know something about God and you don’t even appreciate that. Now the wrath of God is against all of that.

Now I got up here to say this to you. Now you come on back. Now 2 hours is too much and too long for you set here, if that’s one of your reasons for not coming, skipping from one time to the other, we’ll cut this thing down. I’ll talk with the boys and I’m not the boss and altogether in that category but we’ll cut it down to an hour and a half and then we’ll get up here and we’ll preach to you in an hour and a half. We can tell you more in 15 minutes than you’re gonna do the rest of your life (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) and more than half you have done so far as that part of it is concerned. Now, if that’s too long, let us know about it, we’ll cut it down; but it is necessary for you to learn and know something about it because you are subject to being destroyed.

I wanna tell you this. Somebody sent in a subscription for me to receive a magazine called, ‘the Plain Truth.’ I don’t know who it was but anyhow, they sent it to me free, I didn’t pay for it. Well now in that ‘Plain Truth..,’ and what Israel, the people over there are looking for it now. This is what is going on. They are looking for a Messiah to come back and set up His kingdom on the earth and rule 1000 years. And in this ‘Plain Truth,’ I, I, I, I can bring it to school and read it to you, that’s what they are looking for, for Him to come and to sit down here and.., on this earth to straighten out all these wars and we’ll have peace and plenty. Now look, that’s not the way it is. Now that’s setting up His Kingdom on earth. Now let me say this, can I say this by the way of encouragement, this may help you.

The kingdom of God is as of now. You are in the Kingdom, it has already been set up and I do mean here in the world. And as Paul put it, says, He has translated us into the Kingdom of His dear Son. Do you recall and do you remember that He sent them out to preach that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. Now if it was way down here, nearly 2000 years and it ain’t been set up yet. Now that wouldn’t hardly make no sense, but now the reason why some of us can’t appreciate that the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of God is as of now is because we haven’t never repented or apologized, we just haven’t come to the knowledge of it. We just don’t realize that it is. Well what’s keeping you from it. Well, here they are around here, all around you, scattered all around, telling you that they’re looking for, is what we might describe as a premillenium. Now a postmillenium. Now that’s what the people are looking for, they’re looking for it all over the world. But now this is what takes place. Now you’ll find what I’m talking about, I’m not gonna take the time to read, but you read it when you go home.

You read 2nd Thessalonians and the 3rd chapter of Peter. Now when.., listen, He will be revealed from heaven. There’s just no argument about that. Now what I mean by being revealed from heaven, lotta people don’t understand that, that is to say you will see a vision, it, it will appear and you will see a vision. You could see it now, if you was looking for it. Now let me say this, but when He doth appear and when that vision is pronounced like that, you know what’s gonna take place, it will be fire just like it was the flood. And as Paul put it, taking.., when He’s revealed from heaven taking flaming vengeance on them that know not God. That is the punishment children, not an opportunity to go ahead up. That.., you have the opportunity now. You see what I’m talking about. And so now, that, that’s what is going to take place at the revelation of Yahshua the Messiah. Now for you to have Yahshua the Messiah into your, in your heart means this: that you have the spirit (He’s a quickening spirit), for you to have the spirit of God within, within you functioning through your heart and mind. And listen, everybody has those two laws in their members. One is saying, ‘no,’ and the other one’s saying, ‘yes.’ And Paul said, when I would do good, evil was present, and now, no man can serve two masters. You must either serve one or the other. Now if you serve the, the devil then you yield your members to serve it, then this is what you look for, just look for a punishment and let, let me tell you this: nobody never did escape, even the angels that sinned. You can’t get by with it folks. You needn’t think that you could bridge over it and smooth it over. A lotta times we do things we ought not to do and then we bridge over it. I did something to Roger and now I just as well go ahead on. I didn’t go to Roger and reconcile that thing, I just bridged it on over. Then I’m testifying, and then pretty.., the first thing you I done done something to somebody else and I just go on bridging, bridging. Now that’s not gonna work. That, that will not work. Confess.., James said, confess your faults, not to the priest cause there’s nothing he can do about it, he has to do something for his own errors then there won’t be no need of confess.., confess your faults one to another. If.., boy, if I did something to you and you did something to me, admit or confess that you’re wrong about it. And if you don’t confess it, you’ll never be forgiven. You just can’t get by with that stuff, so you just might as well behave yourself. And the most of us know better anyhow because that still small voice within us telling you,‘you ought not to do that.’ Now the devil has all kinds of play ____. He’ll tell you two hours is too long. He tell you, ‘well, I don’t like them, the way them folks teach, that’s not the way that I’ve been taught all of my life.’ Now listen, Yahweh is His name, just like Dr. Mathess taught. Now you have not been taught that. Yahshua is the Son’s name. You have not been taught that. The Holy Spirit is correct. Now if they’re not teaching that out there and we’re teaching it here. I want you to know this gigantic impulse that has gone all over the world. Now all over in England and America and everywhere they’re coming back to Yahshua the Messiah and they’re coming down to say, ‘Yahweh is the correct name.’ They’re doing that all over the world. They admit it now.., but when you first introduce it, ‘I don’t want them.., they got a whole lotta funny gods down there.’ Them’s the people got the funny gods. And they have ate suppers and baptized and get.., for nearly 2000 years and now when it comes to a showdown, they haven’t got the.., the prisons is full, they won’t even obey the civil law. And yet and still they have it, right universally all over the world. Now you know, it just cannot continue to go on like this.

And let me.., can I say this one other thing. Lyndon B. Johnson, when he run for President of the United States of America. One of the things that he told the people, said he was gonna clean up the streams and clean up the.., you know what I mean by streams, clean up the rivers and the lakes, take down the billboards, and this filth and trash and what not, clean up, and then the, the run down areas where rats and.., gonna, gonna clean out all that. And this poverty stricken.., now Lyndon B. Johnson… Now look, that’s what their folks are talking about the Messiah coming back and cleaning up or doing a job like that and setting up a kingdom. It just don’t make sense. Now he ain’t getting by with it, he’s got riots and every other kinda thing like that. Well why would you think that Messiah was gonna come back here and do something like that. It’s not working in his case. He’s over yonder in Viet Nam fighting and here we got all this trouble here in America. It don’t make no difference who you got for President, that’s what’s gonna happen because you’ve got that strife and… Now look, but if you can manage to preach the truth and somebody get the spirit of God, listen, it’ll make you behave at home and down in the street and everywhere else, and nothing else is gonna do that.

Now I said those things. I’m through. See if you can’t bring somebody with you, bring somebody to school with you. Let’s fill this place up here. There’s Los Angeles County, between six and eight million people. And so now, let’s see if, everyone of us make ourselves a missionary. And then what we will do and we’ll make you this promise. I’ll talk it over with the, the authorities, and if two hours is too long for you to set there, we’ll cut the time down to an hour and a half. Dr. Wills done a good job in an hour and a half here. And then we’ll preach to you, we’ll tell you the truth as it really is. We won’t waste time and procrastinating and all those different kinda things. We’ll do that. Let’s run this place over and then run ourselves clear out of this building, carry the gospel to every creature. Now the time is so short. The, the time is so short. October the 10th will be the Day of Atonement. You don’t know. That’s the day that the high priest went in to the Most Holy Place and come back out and made atonement for Israel’s sins. You don’t know whether this high priest which is entered within the veil will come October the 10th. He didn’t tell me to tell you that, that, that He would be here on October the 10th, but He did say warn you, caution you. Look for it. And it’s sure to happen. This is one of these sure shots. I mean it will happen at some time or another because it, Christ is, is coming.

More important than anything else, let nothing hinder you or obstruct you or keep you from coming here because you do need this school, you need this knowledge, you need this understanding, you need encouragement, you need some faith, you need to see and understand what’s going on. Now, now you just have to have it, you can’t get it out there, if there’s no pasture, no, no grass around, you have to take ‘em to another field. Now children do that. And then you come yourself, don’t be having these lazy excuses and all these different kinda things, little belly aches and little things like that, little minor things. Come and bring somebody else and try to help somebody save their soul. Behave yourself in the community in which you live and try to influence somebody because the time is short. Let’s go.



Approximately 8 Pages